Argos Card PPI

[joseyell]

Hello to all

I was wondering if someone would be able to advise me as to my next steps on my Argos Card reclaim of PPI.

After requesting a refund of my PPI due to mis-selling, I have received a response back with their refusal.

Firstly, they point out that I could, if I wanted to, refer the matter to the FOS as the account was opened in 2003 but it is outside of their timeframe so it probably is not worth the effort.

Secondly, they enclosed a copy of the credit agreement that I signed in store. The credit agreement does have my signature on it but none of the form has been filled in by me. There are inaccuracies on it, for instance, it says I have 0 dependents when in fact I had 3 at the time. The PPI box has a cross placed in it but I know I would not have agreed to this as I was and am still covered with excellent workplace cover so did not need it.

It also states in the letter that it would have been taken out on a non-advised sale. I sort of agree with this statement as I was not advised that it was going to be added on – it just got ticked by the sales assistant Apparently, according to their letter, their staff did not receive any recompense for getting customers to take PPI – I find this pretty hard to believe as her name is in a box on the form .

The thing that is really irritating is that I have been successful in proving that I did not need PPI cover from 4 other companies now and have received refunds. There is this one and one from Studio that I am having problems with. I will start a new thread on the Studio one as I’m stuck on this one too. I am also still waiting to hear from my final 2 reclaims – Littlewoods and SimplyBe.

I would really appreciate advice as to my next action. This is the first letter received by Argos on Thursday.

Many Thanks

Jo

[di30]

Re: Argos Card PPI

Hello to all

I was wondering if someone would be able to advise me as to my next steps on my Argos Card reclaim of PPI.

After requesting a refund of my PPI due to mis-selling, I have received a response back with their refusal.

Firstly, they point out that I could, if I wanted to, refer the matter to the FOS as the account was opened in 2003 but it is outside of their timeframe so it probably is not worth the effort.

Secondly, they enclosed a copy of the credit agreement that I signed in store. The credit agreement does have my signature on it but none of the form has been filled in by me. There are inaccuracies on it, for instance, it says I have 0 dependents when in fact I had 3 at the time. The PPI box has a cross placed in it but I know I would not have agreed to this as I was and am still covered with excellent workplace cover so did not need it.

It also states in the letter that it would have been taken out on a non-advised sale. I sort of agree with this statement as I was not advised that it was going to be added on – it just got ticked by the sales assistant Apparently, according to their letter, their staff did not receive any recompense for getting customers to take PPI – I find this pretty hard to believe as her name is in a box on the form .

The thing that is really irritating is that I have been successful in proving that I did not need PPI cover from 4 other companies now and have received refunds. There is this one and one from Studio that I am having problems with. I will start a new thread on the Studio one as I’m stuck on this one too. I am also still waiting to hear from my final 2 reclaims – Littlewoods and SimplyBe.

I would really appreciate advice as to my next action. This is the first letter received by Argos on Thursday.

Many Thanks

Jo

Hi and welcome to LB

I would write to the Chief Executive Officer to give them the opportunity to review, we so suggest this avenue if all else fails with a final rejection letter, by giving maybe an extra 14 days.

Raise your concerns with the CEO as said above, if your not able to find the details let us know and we can try searching this for you, and also request for details of the underwriter/insurer of the policy you had with them, so we can then try this avenue if it also fails with the CEO, at least you can then complain to the FOS if it fails with the underwriter as they would have been regulated etc....


Hope this makes sense, but do not give up yet. :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Victoria27]

Re: Argos Card PPI

Hi and welcome Jo.

I agree with my friend Di.

Just in case, it might be helpful to you, I enclose here one of my template letters.

you may edit it according to your case.
May be some of my points would work for your case as well.

please, do not forget to correct my English


I also suggest you contact your MPs and put them in the picture, what is going on with this company.
they can be helpful as well and can represent your cases.


the first draft of the letter, so to speak, a starting point:


....


Dear Sir/Madam,

Ref:

I refer to your letter of ..... rejecting my claim for a refund of Payment Protection Insurance plus associated interest.

I consider your rejection to be both wrong and in breach of the FCA guidelines as to the assessment and redress of Payment Protection Insurance Complaints.

For your guidance I shall refer you to the relevant sections of the FCA Handbook and I am going to point out the various sections you are IN BREACH OF.

1. Firstly, you refer to the fact that I signed the relevant document and had time to cancel the policy and I did not do that.

This is IN BREACH of the FCA Handbook, App. 3 Handling Payment Protection Complaints, The Approach to Considering Evidence,

DISP App 3.3.5
01/04/2013
FCA
The firm should not reject a complainant's account of events solely on the basis that the complainant signed documentation relevant to the purchase of the policy.


App. 3.3.6 G: "The firm should not reject a complaint because the complainant failed to exercise the right to cancel the policy".

2. You based your decision on the assumption what might have happened, instead of dealing with the facts of my particular complaint.

You do not really have any evidence related to that case.
You were not present at the store, I told you what happened, and you chose to ignore it, which is in breach of the FCA guidelines about oral evidence presented by the customer, even without documental proof.
You are sending to me my Credit Agreement to prove that I signed it.
Even if I did sign a document, it still does not prove the fact that I intended to take the insurance, as you can see from App. 3.3.5G FCA Handbook as well as from the FOS, case studies, Issue 71/01).

So, in the lack of any real evidence, except the fact that I signed the document, not realising what I was signing while being manipulated and misled, which cannot be the reason for a rejection, and the fact, that I did not cancel this PPI, which cannot not be considered as an evidence anyway, according to the FCA guidelines, you decided, instead of dealing with my particular case - which is very clear and straight forward - to base your decision on the assumption how things should have been done at the time of this sale.
Let me remind you of the App. 3.3.9, 3.3.10, 3.3.11 and 3.312 G, which you are in breach of, by doing that.
Also I refer you to the relevant FOS documents: "...we look at the circumstances of the actual sale to establish what did happened, rather then what was supposed to have happened".

3. You consider that I was aware of the policy because it was shown on my statements.
Why would I think that it was an optional product and not another compulsory service charge?
There is nothing in the statements which implies that PPI was optional.

4. You assume that I was advised of the main features of the policy, relevant exclusions and limitations.

I am going to prove that your statement is wrong.

1) If it was as you stated and I was advised of the main product features, that surely means that according to the guidelines those main features were disclosed to me in good time before the sale was concluded, and in a way that was fair, clear and not misleading, and of course those main features had to include the significant exclusions and limitations, "i.e. those that would tend to affect the decisions ....to buy the policy" (FCA, App. 3.6.2.E, "Determining the effect of a breach or failing").

2) Let me remind you, that all those feature had to be disclosed to me whether it was advised or NON ADVISED sale to enable me to make an "informed choice".


3) Also it had to be disclosed to me in a good time before sale was concluded and in the way that was fair, clear and not misleading, showing me if there were parts of the cover which did not apply.
Also I quote from the FOS: "were the exclusions drawn to the consumer's attention during the sales process?"
"...it is not enough to have reminded the consumer to read the policy...".

4) That means, according to your assumption, I must have been told that this policy would not .........

5. You can appreciate that it makes it impossible and absurd to suggest that after such a disclosure I would have made an "informed decision" to buy the product which would have been useless and not necessary for me.

This fact without any shadow of doubt proves that in my case PPI was mis-sold.

I am going to refer you to the FCA Handbook App.3/6 E, DISP 3.6.1 and 3.6.2, "Determining the effect of a breach or failing", which covers all those issues.

6. In your letter of ..... you failed to prove that the policy was fair and reasonable and that I was treated fairly when I was sold this insurance.
Your letter is written in breach of the FCA guidelines.
1.You based your rejection on the fact that I did not exercise my right to cancel this policy which is in the breach of the FCA guidelines.
2. You based your rejection on the assumption how the company should have acted, but not on the circumstances of my particular case, which is in the breach FCA guidelines.
3. You based your rejection on the fact that I signed the agreement, which, according to the FCA guidelines and the relevant FOS documents, is not a proof of my intention to take the PPI.

You did not really investigate my case at all, but, instead sent me a generic rejection letter.

I found that you sent the same letters, just inserting different names to everybody I know. It is also in the breach of the FCA regulations and relevant organisations have to be made aware of that shameful practice.
You sent me a reply, but not an answer, addressing my personal issues.

According to the FCA regulations, you were supposed to take my personal circumstances at the time of sale into consideration, which clearly, you did not.

Can you give me at least one reasonable explanation why would I agree to take this cover, which I knew I did not need at all?

Any court of law would believe what is reasonable.

What in your opinion was reasonable in my "informed decision" to take this PPI, considering that.....

On the other hand, your company had all the reason to sell it to me.

The shop assistants were untrained. It is a well known fact which cannot be denied.

Why would you believe that they did everything correct and gave me all the necessary information?

It is not natural to buy something we do not need. Unless we are led to believe it is necessary or we are not aware that we bought it.

It looks like your company is not aware of the situation with mis-sold PPIs and act like that never happened.

It looks like your complaint department is not aware of the FCA regulations or, which is even worse, you are thinking we are not aware of it.

Let me assure you, that I will not give up and will escalate my case and will make it public and will go as far as necessary to put it right.
I will contact my MP, press and also will inform the FCA about your company failing your fiduciary duties.

Please do not send me any more template letters.
I shall expect you to look in my case properly and I am giving you further 2 weeks to reconsider prior to me escalating my case.

Yours faithfully,

........

Victoria

[Victoria27]

Re: Argos Card PPI

A bit of information for you, Jo.

I hope it might be helpful.


I believe a lot of us received similar, if not identical letters, where rejection is based on the fact that we signed the agreement, the fact that we did not cancel the policy, the fact that somehow it is obvious from the premiums shown on our statements that insurance was optional and other similar rubbish.
It only proves that companies sending such letters totally ignore the FCA guidelines and the fiduciary duties they are required to observe.
"DISP App 3.3.5
01/04/2013
FCA
The firm should not reject a complainant's account of events solely on the basis that the complainant signed documentation relevant to the purchase of the policy.
DISP App 3.3.6
01/04/2013
FCA
The firm should not reject a complaint because the complainant failed to exercise the right to cancel the policy."
Also they often state that they assume!!! the information was given at the point of sale or soon after! Meaning the policy document, sent in the post, which we had to check carefully and it makes it our fault that we did not read the policy properly etc.
However, that is not what is stated in the FCA Handbook and the relevant FOS documents.
In short:
1.Guidelines are for both advised and non advised sales, before and after 2005.
2.The information has to be given before sale is completed for non advised sales, not post sale relying on the policy document sent later by post as an excuse to avoid responsibility.
It has to be done BEFORE sale is completed.
3.This requirement is specifically emphasised by the FOS, where it is stated, that it is not enough to remind a customer to read the policy.
4. The company should not reject a complaint on the basis that the policy was not cancelled.
5. The company should not assume that by signing the document a customer agreed to take the policy.
6. There is requirement to draw a customer's attention to the onerous terms of the policy for a NON ADVISED sale BEFORE it is completed.
The FOS case study, issue 71/1 is given as an example, where the FOS disagrees that premiums shown on the statements in any way prove that the cover is optional.
However since 2008 some businesses keep repeating the exact same wording in their template rejection letters, which now I have a collection of.
The FOS published case 71/1 in 2008! Some companies still write the same generic rejection letters, using the same words. The FCA states that the company must learn from the previous cases and findings and not repeat the same misinformation.
I quote: "We did not agree with the credit card company that it was clear from the application form that the insurance cover was optional. Nor did we agree that, by signing the form, Mr A had clearly indicated his wish to buy the policy. There was no evidence that he had been told anything about the cover at the time of the sale. And the fact that Mr A's statement showed that the premium was collected monthly did not mean he must have been aware the insurance was optional." (The link:http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...omplaints.html).
A statement from the FCA said: 'We expect all firms to comply with our rules and treat their customers fairly...
'Our rules are very clear that firms are expected to learn from previous complaints. So if there are significant numbers of complaints coming in about the same thing, that is a clear warning sign that something isn't right.'
I wonder, in what way that company have complied with the FCA guidelines and the FOS regulations, in what way those regulations have been applied to the handling of our complaints?
Looking at some template rejection letters, it is impossible to believe that PPI complaint department have ever read the regulations.
Why does this organisation think that the FCA guidelines and regulations, which have been accepted by all other companies, do not apply to them?
Why do they still raise the points which have already been deemed unacceptable by the FCA and the FOS?


http://fshandbook.info/FS/html/FCA/DISP/App/3
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...omplaints.html


Victoria

[joseyell]

Re: Argos Card PPI

Thanks you both for your replies. I'm so sorry it has taken me all this time to respond but I have not been well for the past couple of months and am only now catching up with all my outstanding paperwork etc.

Just to let you know that I have today sent off my response to their refusal letter based on your excellent advise and letter template. I will let you know how I get on.

[Victoria27]

Re: Argos Card PPI

All the best to you, Joseyell.
I hope you feel better now.

Fingers crossed for you.
Please keep is posted

V

[joseyell]

Re: Argos Card PPI

Hello Di & Victoria,

I've today received a response back from Argos.

First they point out how sorry they are that I was not satisfied with their response to my original complaint.

It then goes on to say that my case file was referred to the team leader (author of the letter) and after he has examined the details of my case he remains of the view that there is no evidence of mis-sale therefore no refund is due.

He then goes on to mention that they have been advised by the FOS that complaints made prior to the 14th January 2005 falls outside of their remit as Argos were not full members of the GISC therefore they cannot refer me to them to have the case reviewed.

However, I may find it useful to make use of the Finance and Leasing Association's (FLA) conciliation scheme to resolve my complaint. They are members of the FLA and are bound by their lending code.

End of letter. They have not stated that this is their final response.

Do you know if anyone has had any luck going though the FLA or is this a delay tactic and a waste of time?

Am I better off pursuing the underwriters of the insurance policy?

It seems that Argos are hiding behind the pre 2005 deadline.

I've made successful claims against other companies and they have backdated pre 2005 as I have proved that this insurance was of no use to me and I did not need it.. Argos is the first one that are digging their heels in and are hiding behind this legislation.

Any help as to my next move would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks

Jo

[Victoria27]

Re: Argos Card PPI

Hi Jo,

I am sorry they behave in such a way.

You can try with FLA, nothing to lose by trying. I never had any dealings with them, but from what I heard they are not that helpful. Still it is worth trying.
The underwriter root can be an option and Di is the best advisor here.

Still at the same time, may be it is possible to try a bit more with the business itself.
The person who replied to you, was he or she from the CEO office?

I got a rejection once from the head of complaint department, but then the CEO office resolved it with apology.

Is there a chance to write to the CEO office?

Did you try to involve your MP?

Another option is small claim court, where our very good expert is L'pool.
When everybody, including CEO, underwriter etc. rejected her case, L'pool went to small claim court and everything was resolved out of court with much larger compensation than was originally asked. Also it practically does not cost you anything, so you have nothing to lose, unlike the company, which also risked its reputation.

Please don't give up.

They are wrong and are trying to wear you out in hope you won't pursue it.

In their letter did they actually address the points you argued or it is again just a generic rejection?

If they did not answer point by point all the questions you raised, that means they did not really answer your letter.

May be you should go back to them.

Victoria

[samstigers]

Re: Argos Card PPI

hi all, i know this thread was started a while ago, but i have just today recieved a letter back from argos (home retail group) that my ppi was never mis-sold to me. at the time of taking out the card i do not recall needing ppi as i had never taken it out on any other cards or catalogue, the only time i have taken ppi out was on a loan i had. the letter goes into big detail of how the staff at the time did not provide guidence or advice about this insurance but they did send documents once it had been selected. they have also sent me my orginal credit agreement i signed which states the ppi is 95p per £100, but when i have looked at statements it is showing that it was £1.30 per £100.

i would like some information as to other people who have been refused and what do next, as i do believe i would never of asked for this or needed this placing on my account.

many thanks in advance