Applying FSA Rules to pre-2005 PPI

[Bill-K]

I've been doing a Santander PPI reclaim for my daughter. It was a store card financed by GE Money, and was taken out in 2002. First, I sent a DSAR in 2011, and I duly got back some data from 2005 to account closure in 2007.

In the DSAR, I requested

• Details of all systems you currently have in place to ensure my personal or financial information is kept securely, including details of those officers who currently have control of the same, and at the time it was held or provided to a third party.

• If any data has been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, reason for deletion, certificates or documents confirming details of destruction. If you are unable to provide such certificates, then I require a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

Please be aware that the Data Protection Act 1998 clearly states that all information held must be disclosed and there is no correlation to the Limitation Act 1980 whatsoever. This request therefore lawfully includes any and all data which is older than six years. If you do not hold any data older than 6 years, then I require a signed declaration from your data controller confirming this, and a copy of all documents pertaining to its proper disposal.

None of the above data was sent to me, but I got the following in response - "The way in which our data is destroyed is privy to the security business and we are confident that this complies with regulatory requirements."

For info, here is the DSAR I sent, and the reply received. I now intend to make a claim based on a lot of estimated data, so I have decided to insist on confirmation that no further data exists.

Dear Sir/Madam
Please supply all data that your company holds relating to my entire account history. Whilst not exhaustive, for the avoidance of doubt I list below what I require:
• Full and legible copies of all contracts and agreements that have existed between myself and your organisation, including copies of any documents you hold in support of same. This is to include Burton account nos.
• Full and legible copies of all statements relating to the above accounts. This is to include all credits, debits, charges & interest applied to my account(s) including details of any instances that required manual intervention. It is also to include monthly account balances.
• Full and legible copies of all correspondence, including all letters, faxes, emails and memos sent and received between ourselves, and any other third party in relation to any of the above accounts.
• Full unedited copies of any telephone recordings and/or transcripts of these recordings as well as any logs or journals that relate to them.
• Full and legible copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.
• Full details and legible copies of any documents upon which you relied when you have provided my personal or financial information to any individual, organisation or third party.
• Full and legible copies or transcripts of any computer logs or database records kept in relation to myself or in relation to my financial or personal information.
• Details of all systems you currently have in place to ensure my personal or financial information is kept securely, including details of those officers who currently have control of the same, and at the time it was held or provided to a third party.
• If any data has been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, reason for deletion, certificates or documents confirming details of destruction. If you are unable to provide such certificates, then I require a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.
Please be aware that the Data Protection Act 1998 clearly states that all information held must be disclosed and there is no correlation to the Limitation Act 1980 whatsoever. This request therefore lawfully includes any and all data which is older than six years. If you do not hold any data older than 6 years, then I require a signed declaration from your data controller confirming this, and a copy of all documents pertaining to its proper disposal.
All data - including data held on a microfiche or similar systems - must be provided within 40 days, and if you require a fee for this, then I enclose a cheque for the maximum statutory fee of £10.00. If you choose to waive the fee, then please be aware that you still have a legal obligation to comply with this request.

Yours faithfully

[Bill-K]

Re: Applying FSA Rules to pre-2005 PPI

So, I sent in the PPI claim letter as shown here. I made a point of NOT giving any specific reasons for mis-selling, nor any amounts claimed. The fob-off reply seemed to assume that the reason given for mis-selling was that we were not informed that the policy was optional. No such reason was specified. It also stated that it was their final response, which as far as I was concerned was totally inadequate.

Dear Sirs

I have previously held a XXXXXXX XXXXXXXcredit card account, no.XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX, on which I paid Payment Protection Insurance( PPI). Due to recent media attention, I have become aware that most PPI was mis-sold, and that the FSA & FOS have directed that claimants should be put back into the position they would have been if the PPI had not been applied.

I consider that the PPI policy was mis-sold for a number of reasons, and I therefore request that you reimburse me for:

The PPI premiums paid;
Any penalty charges made to the account which would not have been made if the PPI were not applied to it;
The account interest attributable to the PPI premiums and penalty charges paid;
Compensatory interest at a rate which reflects the time-value of the loss of use of the moneys paid toward the PPI premiums, penalties, and attributable interest debited.

I thus look forward to your offer of a refund, and I hope we agree that a swift conclusion to the matter would be best for all concerned.

I would be obliged if you treat this claim as a serious claim, and deal with it fairly and timeously. Should it need to be referred to the FOS or the Courts, then your conduct in dealing with it will be brought to their attention, so I thus appeal to you for a reasonable and sympathetic approach to my claim. As I am sure you will appreciate, anything less will not be looked upon favourably by any subsequent parties, should they need to become involved.

I thus look forward to your early response to my claim for reimbursement and compensation, and expect to receive a full response within 14 days, or your clear reason(s) as to why not. The receipt of neither will be deemed as an acceptance of the claim by default, and taken into account as evidence for submission of the claim to any third parties. I trust this will not be necessary, of course. Many thanks in anticipation.

Yours faithfully

[Bill-K]

Re: Applying FSA Rules to pre-2005 PPI

I replied to their "final response" as shown here.

Dear

Thank you for your letter of XX/XX/XX, but you appear to have replied to a totally different letter to the one I sent you. Without even attempting to enter into any meaningful dialogue, you have decided that you have now provided your final response.

What you have sent me clearly cannot even be considered an initial response to my complaint – let alone a final one. You haven’t asked me what reasons I have for considering the PPI as mis-sold, yet you say you found no evidence of mis-selling. You clearly have not looked for any such evidence, and simply appear to assume that I have just one reason to believe I was mis-sold the PPI policy. You seem to have found my Burtons account details, and then decided that the PPI was not mis-sold simply because a consent box appears to have been ticked.

I have thus been forced to take further advice on this, which I had hoped would not prove necessary. Please be aware that I shall be seeking compensation additional to the redress you will be required to make, due to your treatment of my complaint. I would suggest that you now try and limit your liability in this respect by responding properly.

Your response falls far short of what is expected by the FSA, and I am sure you will agree that your conduct thus far will not be looked upon favourably by the FSA, the FOS, or the Courts, if you force me to take my complaint to them.

May I respectfully ask that you now refer to Disp App 3.2.1, 2 & 3 of the FSA Handbook, and to the entire section Disp App 3.3, then seriously consider dealing with this complaint properly. If you are then neither able nor willing to deal with this complaint properly - in compliance with the FSA – I must insist that you pass it to someone who is.

I genuinely hope that your response thus far has been made in error, and I am prepared to accept that, if you can now demonstrate that this is not your normal method of dealing with PPI complaints.

I thus look forward to your co-operation by sending me a proper response, in compliance with the FSA policies.

Yours sincerely

To which their response was the curt fob-off attached here. I note it states "Due to the date that the insurance was sold the FOS does not have jurisdiction..."
Sure, with regard to the actual mis-selling, I appreciate that the FLA rules (what few of them there may be) would apply in determining if the PPI was mis-sold. BUT - what I disagree with is their assertion that the FOS has NO jurisdiction. I believe that the PS 10/12 PPI Redress Handbook covers ALL PPI complaints, and that the rules on how complaints are handled apply to ALL complaints. It is just the rules regarding selling and mis-selling of PPI that do not apply to older claims.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I intend to find out. Does anybody have any views about this ?

[Bill-K]

Re: Applying FSA Rules to pre-2005 PPI

This has become a war of attrition now, as they clearly made no proper effort originally, and I damned well intend to make them work for me now. I replied thus:

Dear XXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter of XX/XX/XX, in which you suggest that this complaint has previously been investigated in full. I don’t wish to insult you, but you leave me little choice. If any investigation into my complaint took place at all, then I have yet to receive any response to it. The letter I received from XXXXXXXXX quite clearly referred to a totally different complaint to mine, as the points he appeared to address were most certainly not points which I made in my complaint, and I replied to that effect quite emphatically.

If you really do consider that you have dealt with this complaint in a fair and reasonable manner, and are not prepared to look into it any further, then please will you clearly confirm this – and also confirm that you have understood the text of my correspondence with yourselves. If you are going to force me to refer my complaint to the FOS or FLA, then your conduct thus far in this matter will be taken into account – and I consider it to be little short of despicable.

If you are unable or unwilling to deal with this matter in a reasonable manner, then please will you now refer it upward to someone who is.

Yours sincerely

Their reply was a better effort than last time, admittedly. This time, I get an apology, but still they insist that the complaint has been fully investigated - yet so far they have NOT asked me for reasons as to why I consider it mis-sold. Surely THAT must be a part of the investigation ?

[di30]

Re: Applying FSA Rules to pre-2005 PPI

I totally agree with you Bill, it seems like they have no interest of the reasons at all, and are just covering themselves.

I would certainly point that out to them, because how on earth can they investigate without the reasons!
Yes that is correct Bill, the reasons should all be part of the investigation.

I would be inclined to write back and question them on this!

[Bill-K]

Re: Applying FSA Rules to pre-2005 PPI

We got this - signed in RED INK:-



Then, two days later, this. Obviously no further 'investigation' took place, as they still insist that this claim is not covered by the FSA/FOS rules. I still believe that it is still covered by the rules regarding fair and proper investigation of complaints:-



So, here's wot I rote. If I'm wrong about this, then so be it, but I need to get it clarified for future reference:-

[sula64]

Re: Applying FSA Rules to pre-2005 PPI

Bill, any update to your claim as mine is very similar. I have received almost exactly the same letters from Santander!