the claims guys charges

[specialbru]

Re: the claims guys charges

i had one of the clowns on the phone on friday and all he was saying was you will have to pay this repeatedly
They are so annoying but to some people it could be classed as intimidation!!!!

[TUTTSI]

Re: the claims guys charges

Have they sent you an invoice?

If they have does it have a VAT number on the invoice?

If it has a VAT number on can you let us know the VAT number so we can check if it is likely to be correct.

If they have not sent an invoice for work they say they have completed they cannot and should not continually harrass you and if they continually harrass you I would get an harrassment letter off to them putting them on notice that the debt is in dispute. Then if they contact you again whilst the debt is still in dispute you can throw the book at them. There are some good harrassment letters on the forum, just shout if you cannot find and I will search them out for you.

i had one of the clowns on the phone on friday and all he was saying was you will have to pay this repeatedly
They are so annoying but to some people it could be classed as intimidation!!!!

[CleverClogs]

Re: the claims guys charges

i had one of the clowns on the phone on friday and all he was saying was you will have to pay this repeatedly

Why should you pay it repeatedly?

They are so annoying but to some people it could be classed as intimidation!!!!

So don't be annoyed by them - annoy them instead.
Record their next repetitive call, edit it, mix in a funky disco beat and play it back to them.

[TUTTSI]

Re: the claims guys charges

I tried this on a clients VAT number
120 7563 38

1 x 8 = 8
2 x 7 =14
0 x 6 = 0
7 x 5 = 35
5 x 4 = 20
6 x 3 = 18
3 x 2 = 6
Total = 101 less 97 = 04 and that does not equate to the last 2 numbers.

Have I done something wrong?

No, it's far easier than that, as I recall.

For example, take this VAT number 785 2181 12 and multiply as follows, using the first 7 digits of the number only. You need to list the numbers vertically, then multiply the first one by 8, the second by 7, and so on down to the seventh one by 2.

7 x 8 = 56
8 x 7 = 56
5 x 6 = 30
2 x 5 = 10
1 x 4 = 4
8 x 3 = 24
1 x 2 = 2
Total 182

then start subtracting 97 from the total. Eventually, you should arrive at a number which matches the last two digits of the VAT number. If you don't, then it's a dodgy VAT number

so therefore 182- 97 = 85. Then 85 - 97 = - 12. 12 being the last two digits of the VAT number I gave above.

Easier than a spreadsheet as you can do this anywhere, without a spreadsheet, all you need is a pen and the back of a fag packet...

[WendyB]

Re: the claims guys charges

Deleted, having s blonde moment! I'll have a look later

[WendyB]

Re: the claims guys charges

Maybe it is one of the "new" series VAT numbers? The mod 97 doesn't work with those, as a different integer is used, but I don't know what it is?

[Gorang]

Re: the claims guys charges

Mod 97 doesn't work with this number either but I know this one was only regisered in march this year 105714344, so as wendy says it will need a different integer to be used



I duno if the numbers are issued in sequence or not (maybe you will know wendy) if they are then there is a chance the that number was only issued a short while ago as it starts with 120

[Bill-K]

Re: the claims guys charges

Mod 97 doesn't work with this number either but I know this one was only regisered in march this year 105714344, so as wendy says it will need a different integer to be used



I duno if the numbers are issued in sequence or not (maybe you will know wendy) if they are then there is a chance the that number was only issued a short while ago as it starts with 120

Wikipedia seems to confirm this, Gorang - but I haven't puzzled it out, yet.

Country code GB followed by either:
standard: 9 digits (block of 3, block of 4, block of 2 – e.g. GB999 9999 73)
branch traders: 12 digits (as for 9 digits, followed by a block of 3 digits)
government departments: the letters GD then 3 digits from 000 to 499 (e.g. GBGD001)
health authorities: the letters HA then 3 digits from 500 to 999 (e.g. GBHA599)
For the 9-digit scheme, the 2-digit block containing the 8th and 9th digits is always in the range 00 to 96 and is derived from a weighted modulus-97 check number (an identical algorithm is used for the 12-digit scheme, ignoring the extra 3-digit block).[7] The current modulus-97 series is expected to run out during 2010, so a parallel series of numbers is being introduced from November 2009 for new registrations, restarting at 100 nnnn nn and following the same format but with the last two digits derived from an alternative algorithm known as "9755".[8] The algorithm is identical to the one for the established series except that 55 is subtracted to give the check number (modulus 97), so the check number is either 55 less than or (if this would be negative) 42 greater than the check number that a VAT number in the established series would have if it were identical in the first seven digits.[9] The details of the 97−55 check algorithm were to be secret[10] but are now available from HMRC on request.[11]
The GD and HA formats may also be formatted as GB888 8xxx yy for EU compatibility, where xxx is the 3-digit number from the short format and yy is the 2-digit modulus-97 check number.[12]
Isle of Man registrations share the 9- and 12-digit formats with the UK, with GB as the country code prefix, but are distinguished by having 00 as the first two digits.[13] Numbers with 01 to 09 in the first two digits are reserved by HM Revenue & Customs for UK non-VAT reference schemes.

[WendyB]

Re: the claims guys charges

Yes Bill, I read that on Wiki yesterday, but it didn't really make much sense. I've read it again now, and it still doesn't! It seems to be saying that you use the same formula, but instead of subtracting 97, subtract 55 instead. However, when 55 is subtracted from 101, it leaves 46. Then subtracted again, leaves -9, then again, - 64. Neither of which equate to the last 2 numbers in Tuttsi's example, which are 38.

The nearest/only way I can get it to work out is 101-97 = 4, 4-97= -93, -93+55 = -38

But tbh I think I just made the numbers fit!

I think from what Wiki says, that if that VAT number (1st 7 digits) was used in the "old" system with a Mod 97 calc, the check number would be 93 (i.e 55 more than the new one) going by this bit of Wiki
so the check number is either 55 less than or (if this would be negative) 42 greater than the check number that a VAT number in the established series would have if it were identical in the first seven digits.

Also, you would get the right answer, (38) if you did 101-97=4, then 4-42 =-38 And of course, 42+55 =97, and we already know that the new formula is based on the old formula

The answer is, (I think) to just modge around with 42 and 55 till you get to the answer you want.....chances are it will work, just needs a bit of head-getting-round
So all in all, on reflection, I think that the workings out I did above, which I thought were wrong, were probably right, in a roundabout sort of a way :grin:

[Gorang]

Re: the claims guys charges

Can you get it to work with this number wendy as I know this one is ligit

105714344

Sorry I just can't grasp this at all

Yes Bill, I read that on Wiki yesterday, but it didn't really make much sense. I've read it again now, and it still doesn't! It seems to be saying that you use the same formula, but instead of subtracting 97, subtract 55 instead. However, when 55 is subtracted from 101, it leaves 46. Then subtracted again, leaves -9, then again, - 64. Neither of which equate to the last 2 numbers in Tuttsi's example, which are 38.

The nearest/only way I can get it to work out is 101-97 = 4, 4-97= -93, -93+55 = -38

But tbh I think I just made the numbers fit!

I think from what Wiki says, that if that VAT number (1st 7 digits) was used in the "old" system with a Mod 97 calc, the check number would be 93 (i.e 55 more than the new one) going by this bit of Wiki
so the check number is either 55 less than or (if this would be negative) 42 greater than the check number that a VAT number in the established series would have if it were identical in the first seven digits.

Also, you would get the right answer, (38) if you did 101-97=4, then 4-42 =-38 And of course, 42+55 =97, and we already know that the new formula is based on the old formula

The answer is, (I think) to just modge around with 42 and 55 till you get to the answer you want.....chances are it will work, just needs a bit of head-getting-round
So all in all, on reflection, I think that the workings out I did above, which I thought were wrong, were probably right, in a roundabout sort of a way :grin:

[Bill-K]

Re: the claims guys charges

Just like these forums, Wikipedia is stocked by 'ornery' bods like us jerks - so it isn't nessecelery definitive. Maybe a peek at the HMRC explanation might be clearer.

Maybe later........

[CleverClogs]

Re: the claims guys charges

Would it not be so much simpler to telephone HMRC and ask them if a VAT number is correct?

[Bill-K]

Re: the claims guys charges

I agree in principle, CC, but something tells me THAT is far too simple a solution to dare hope for when dealing with HMRC !!! Seeing as we no longer get a reply-paid envelope with our Tax Returns, I reckon there will be a fee for this...government service.

[Bill-K]

Re: the claims guys charges

Further to above, I tried all manner of 'fag-packet' methods for the newer '9755' method, and drew a blank, which annoys me intensely, as I am a firm believer in Wendy's fag packets. If we can understand how the beast operates, we have a greater power over it. Call it 'horse-whispering' - call it 'Zen, and the art of Motor-Cycle Repair' - whatevva. It's what can save us 5 hours on the hard shoulder.
So - I tried HMRC and I couldn't find zilch online, but I got an 0845 number to call them on. Nice - and I bet they will ask 100 questions before we get the answer that WE want. Eventually, though, I found the EU site, which actually seemed helpful.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/vieshome.do

We still can't get the method explained, BUT at least we can check ANY VAT number online there. Dammit - there's a problem, though...we need to be VAT registered ourselves in order to use their verification system. BLAST - FOILED AGAIN !!!

So....sssshh....we 'borrow' one of the above VAT numbers to gain access, and sho' 'nuff, we got in. It verified both of the above 'newer' VAT numbers in a millisecond. It will probably become self-aware shortly, and decide on the fate of Mankind - so get your queries in before then !!!

Tip: Eliminate any spaces from your entry number. And if your name is John Connor, keep it to yourself !!!



....best I could do.

[TUTTSI]

Re: the claims guys charges

So what is the full number you dialled Bill 0845 .............?
You gave them a VAT number and they veriffied that it was kosher?
So guess that if you tapped in a VAT number and if it was NO GOOD it would not allow you in....?
Next stage is to make up a VAT number and see what happens when you tap that in :tinysmile_grin_t:

Further to above, I tried all manner of 'fag-packet' methods for the newer '9755' method, and drew a blank, which annoys me intensely, as I am a firm believer in Wendy's fag packets. If we can understand how the beast operates, we have a greater power over it. Call it 'horse-whispering' - call it 'Zen, and the art of Motor-Cycle Repair' - whatevva. It's what can save us 5 hours on the hard shoulder.
So - I tried HMRC and I couldn't find zilch online, but I got an 0845 number to call them on. Nice - and I bet they will ask 100 questions before we get the answer that WE want. Eventually, though, I found the EU site, which actually seemed helpful.

We still can't get the method explained, BUT at least we can check ANY VAT number online there. Dammit - there's a problem, though...we need to be VAT registered ourselves in order to use their verification system. BLAST - FOILED AGAIN !!!

So....sssshh....we 'borrow' one of the above VAT numbers to gain access, and sho' 'nuff, we got in. It verified both of the above 'newer' VAT numbers in a millisecond. It will probably become self-aware shortly, and decide on the fate of Mankind - so get your queries in before then !!!

Tip: Eliminate any spaces from your entry number. And if your name is John Connor, keep it to yourself !!!



....best I could do.