PPI and Court

[marshallka]

Re: PPI and Court

In the future, Marshy is going to be our sounding board & a 3rd member of the Simiantics Team



Be back soon

Turbo

Arh Turbo, thanks xx

[Turboman]

Re: PPI and Court

Right here's the 2 Calculation sheets for Loan 1 & Loan 2





These are from the Co-op to the FOS--the handwritten bits are FOS comments

Here's the SS I have used for these 2 loans





Right--we'll do the explainind in Loan 2

The key figure re Apportionment of the key cell L which contains 18.63%
This is derived as Marshy has said-by dividing the PPI Loan of 689.85 by the TOTAL Loan of 3689.58---we show the % attributable to just the Cash Advance as 81.37% for completeness--but we don't need it

Now the red highlighted cells are the impertant ones

Normally I would work from the Loan statements with the actual settlement figure-but we ain't got any-so Marshy gives me the projected figure with PPI & without PPI using a Rule of 78 calculation website--these are highligted in L11 & L121

I bang 15 in L8 which is the number of payments made & the SS opens out instantly and tells us £239.66 was the PPI element (see I am multiplying the total payment of £85.76 by the 18.63%--

It simultaneously calculates 8% interest at 178.83

SO far in refunds line we have done Scheduled Monthly

Next the PPI part of the Settlement figure to pay off loan (this is usually where the big refund is)--560.83 by subtracting the 2 Rule of 78 figures- less refund of 340.27 already given--8%on 240.36 = 166.58

Total--825-ish (26 more than theirs--but that will be cos I'vetaken my 8% date later than theirs

Once I got this SS--every other one was easy

Shout if anybody wants to discuss (will be repeated in OUR Understanding thread of course-& we will tackle variable rates & eratic arrears)

Turbo

[Turboman]

Re: PPI and Court

CAG also makes mistake of assuming interest is Linear (ie constant) which it is not

No--PF

Everyone of your agreements can be done like Marshy said--I'll post up my SS for Loan 2 & Loan 8 in a min to show you & also the calculation sheets for those 2--I was going to leave it until I get the thread Understanding PPI Calculations -- Settled Loans--but seeing its topical discussion here at the moment--I'll post your actual loan solutions--Obviously, in this particular case, me & Marshy soon agree as its relatively simple--but its cos all your loans were fixed rate rather than variable

Since I've been working with Marshy , I've realised that perhaps because we've (Bill & me) been on top of the subject so much , we've (me & Bill) may perhaps have been too clever in our formulas, and effectively hidden some of the logic-so people can't see the audit tail

As Marshy was (hope thats the right word-lol) reluctant to look at our SS--I have completely revamped them so they show all the intermediate steps just like how Marshy works--the advantage of the SS approach of course is speed and the ability to cater for missed payments,erratic payments and constant increase in the monthly pymnt due to % increases -like FirstPlus)--a situation which then makes pen & paper cumbersome. In the future, Marshy is going to be our sounding board & a 3rd member of the Simiantics Team

The same principle as Marshy uses is embedded in our SS but we call it the Apportionment Factor (no claim on originality, it suddenly clicked to me on MSE with discussions with Marshy & Tigrae and we've used the principal ever since, & simplified our whole approach.

Be back soon

Turbo

[marshallka]

Re: PPI and Court

yes on the later agreements the loan and ppi is listed seperately but that was only the case on my last two as you know any agreements pre 2007 folk will struggle as both elements will be lumped together
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
so most consumers who are not savvy with figures will rely on the spreadsheet to work it out and this is where it all starts to go wrong

Easy method
Take the PPI (without interest) and divide it by the loan and PPI (without interest). This gives you a figure. Take that figure as a percentage. (you will have a figure 0.**** in your calculator... forget the 0. and use the last four figures BUT put a "point in between them (after the first two).

This would be the "element" of your repayment that went towards paying the PPI. (put into your calculator the repayment amount using a "point" and then "times" that by the percentage amount (using a point again) and then press the % button. You should have now the amount of the repayment that went towards you PPI.

You then "times" that by how ever many months your loan was over and this is the actual amount of your PPI including interest that you "would" be charged IF the loan goes to full term that is.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

yes on the later agreements the loan and ppi is listed seperately but that was only the case on my last two as you know any agreements pre 2007 folk will struggle as both elements will be lumped together
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
so most consumers who are not savvy with figures will rely on the spreadsheet to work it out and this is where it all starts to go wrong

[marshallka]

Re: PPI and Court

Ame yes it adds compound and stat but the problem with it is its useless for situations like mine i,e refinancing where the loan does not go the full term

If all it works out is the PPI if your loan went to full term (which it does not even do that correctly I don't think) then that is very simple. You just find the PPPI element of the repayment and then times it by how ever many months your loan was over. Most of the time its written on the agreement anyway.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

Ame yes it adds compound and stat but the problem with it is its useless for situations like mine i,e refinancing where the loan does not go the full term

Re: PPI and Court

and going by that one OTR it actually paid the consumer for having the loan.

lol. good one.

[marshallka]

Re: PPI and Court

How does the OTR speady differ so much ? does it add compound/contractual interest on ?

I think its totally useless TBH AMethyst. I have no idea of spreadies really but I do know that if its the one on CAG (as was) its completely out and should be banned from being used. Just my opinion here as it can cause a lot of unnecessary suffering to claimants in that they think they are due much more back than they really are. I work mostly by hand to check any calculator and going by that one OTR it actually paid the consumer for having the loan.

[Amethyst]

Re: PPI and Court

How does the OTR speady differ so much ? does it add compound/contractual interest on ?

[Bill-K]

Re: PPI and Court

You got respect, mate.

From those of us here. Yeah.....well....

From those of them there. Yeah.....well....

From yourself.

Yeah - that's what matters. They couldn't take it from you.

Result.

Win.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

I do think OTR needs to get rid of that mis-leading spready, if they haven't already done so though - otherwise think how many other poor souls will be mis-guided into believing they are owed more than they really are..............

Totally agree.

PF XX

[nelliewops]

Re: PPI and Court

Thanks Nellie you have followed my battle offering advice along the way right from the begining otr and here it really does warm my heart that closure is near for me and that your are at the end with your Norton battle i take heart that i was totally right in turning down the banks first offer which did not include the first loan at least i now have a goodwill on that one PF

Exactly PF - you will come out of this stronger, no longer in debt to the Co-op and with a whole new bunch of (very knowledgable) friends, as well as having a better outcome than they had initially offered

I do think OTR needs to get rid of that mis-leading spready, if they haven't already done so though - otherwise think how many other poor souls will be mis-guided into believing they are owed more than they really are..............

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

Thanks Nellie you have followed my battle offering advice along the way right from the begining otr and here it really does warm my heart that closure is near for me and that your are at the end with your Norton battle i take heart that i was totally right in turning down the banks first offer which did not include the first loan at least i now have a goodwill on that one PF

[nelliewops]

Re: PPI and Court

Hi PF,

I'm so very grateful to Turbo, Marshy, Bill and Wendy for helping you with this and whilst I agree that it isn't what you were originally hoping for (thanks to those bloomin' spreadies OTR), the end is now finally in sight. To be able to clear the outstanding balance on the current loan and come away with your health having suffered no further damage is the most important thing - that and all the extra friends you've gained!

Having had my own result today I just can't wait for your own celebrations to begin

My thanks to all who have been there for you!

Much love,

Nellie x