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A&L success

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  • A&L success

    Hello,

    I have been helping my daughter regarding 2 car loans with ppi, life insurance and gap packages applied to them. These loans were taken out with the naughty Alliance and Leicester in 2003, 2004.

    Sent sar, sent some information, but no recordings of the sales calls, sent a non-compliance asking for missling information. No response

    Sent prelim asking for these insurances back, plus interest, within two weeks, they sent their apology and offers of settlement

    Full amounts, plus 8% interest

    Below is the prelim that was sent to them

    Dear Sir/Madam

    I am writing to your Company, with a complaint regarding the two above loans, I took out with your Company in good faith, on the 15th December 2003 and 29th September 2004.

    I believe that the insurances schemes applied to the above loans, were mis-sold to me by your company with no regard to fairness to their customers, in your companies strive for unjust enrichment.

    I consider that there was a clear conflict of interest between your fiduciary responsibilities to me and the direct hard selling by your employees of insurance schemes, given the very large profit margins they generated for your Company and the reward of incentive bonuses awarded to your employees for the application of unnecessary insurance premiums at the point of sale.

    I further consider that their has been a “total failure of consideration” by your company, in the appliance at the point of sale, of these unwanted and unnecessary premiums and a further failure of “treating customers fairly“, in your company’s strive for unjust enrichment.

    Please provide me with information relating to incentive bonuses awarded to your employees for application of insurance schemes to loans at the point of sale.

    Regarding the loans with the insurances applied, I believe I that I have been gravely mis-led by your company at a time when I was facing financial difficulties and have been mis-sold this expensive insurances that I did not need or want.. At the time of this application I was in full-time employment with no risk of redundancy ,a fully paid salary for 6months of sickness, had a generous life insurance and critical illness insurance policies.

    No attempt was made to ascertain if the products provided were fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if I indeed require it at all. No inquiry was made as whether I had pre-existing insurance for life cover, accident, illness or unemployment I was not given a copy of any insurance policies. No inquiry was made regarding any pre-existing medical conditions. I am not aware of which Company the insurance policy was with, nor were any rights to cancel explained. I believe you manifestly failed in your fiduciary responsibilities, your duty of care.

    When I took the loan/loans with your company, I was not offered a full and detailed explanation of these insurance schemes and was led to believe by your company/representative that it was part of the conditions of being accepted for the loan. I have thought that for the last few years and more. It has only become apparent to me after the recent coverage by the media, and following the recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of at the point of sale insurances schemes by finance companies.

    I am now fully aware of the outcome of the investigations conducted by the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Services Authority into the vast mis-selling of payment protection insurances, by financial companies, such as yourselves.

    I am also fully aware of the £7 million fine imposed on your company last year by the Financial Services Authority for your companies breaches of principles 3, 6, 7 and 9 of the FSA’s Principles for business.

    This investigation undertaken by the FSA and subsequent fine, highlights the many failings of your company in treating customers fairly and the conduct of your employees to reach targets set and receive bonuses.

    After being alerted to these facts, this is when I requested the Subject Access Request from your company on the November 2008.

    Breach of the Data Protection Act

    At present your Company are in breach of this legal request, by failure to produce varying outstanding documentation and the recorded telephone tapes or transcripts of these telephone sales.

    I have further forward non-compliance letters to your company, on the xxx, xxx and xxx, and have to date received no response or correspondence from your company whatsoever, regarding this serious matter. This I deem as totally unsatisfactory to date, given that your company is a licensed and regulated credit holder with the enforcement authorities. I suggest that you now fully comply with my Subject Access Request and provide me with the outstanding information as a matter of urgency. If I do not response or the outstanding information within the next 7 days, I will report this matter to the Information Commissioners Office for their investigation. I enclose a copy of this non compliance of the data protection act for your reference.


    Your responsibilities

    I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened these accounts. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

    Please be mindful that I am now aware of the legislation contained within the Consumer Credit act 1974, and that your Company as a Licensed and regulated provider governed by the Enforcement Authorities is legally obliged to comply with this legislation.

    These agreements which were presented to myself for signature, appear to be in breach of certain sections of the above Act, as after close inspection of these documents, they are in fact Multiple Agreements.

    I would ask you to refer to the sections of the CCA that outline the legislation relating to “un-restricted credit” and “restricted credit” and further sections relating to “Multiple agreements”

    Your comments regarding this breach of the CCA 1974 would be appropriate

    Finally I believe insurance contracts are contracts uberrimae fidei (contracts of the utmost good faith) which imposes on you a “duty of disclosure of all material facts because one party is in a strong position to know the truth.” Inter alia, . I believe you should have made it clear to me that the policy generated large profits for you and very little for me. You failed to do this. I believe that you have also therefore failed in your duty of disclosure. Your failure to disclose is misrepresentation at common law.

    What I require

    Your concealment of the act of mis-selling has prevented me from asserting my right until now. I believe that there are strong grounds for action against you under common law, statute and consumer regulations.

    I am therefore writing to ask you to refund the premiums paid together with interest equal to the contractual interest rate applied by your company on these loans under the accepted principle of mutuality and reciprocity.

    Loan Account no: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    According to my calculations, the total amount of premiums paid on this loan amounts to £xxxxx. Contractual Interest at 8% to be added is £xxxxx.

    Therefore the total I will accept to resolve this matter for the above account is £xxxxx. I enclose a calculation spreadsheet for your reference.

    Loan Account no: xxxxxxxxxxx

    According to my calculations, the total amount of premiums paid on this loan amounts to £xxx Contractual interest at 12.9% to be added is £xxxxx

    Therefore the total I will accept to resolve this matter for the above account is
    £ xxxxx. I enclose a calculation spreadsheet for your reference.

    I require to be provided with a personal cheque payable to xxxx for the total amount of £xxxxx as settlement to my complaint.

    My targets to resolve this matter

    I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets. I will give you 14 days and 14days only to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive these payments.

    If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that this time frame is sufficient for a large company such as yours with its dedicated staff and departments. After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a legal claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

    I require written confirmation of this complaint within 5days as per your complaints procedure.

    Yours faithfully,

  • #2
    Re: A&L success

    Well that's a letter and a half IMO lol
    Well done Hell, keep at em, Enaid x

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A&L success

      Hells, I hate, in fact I despise the letters that talk about bonuses for staff. That is not the reason why it is missold, that is not the reason why it is not suitable, it is the policy itself that is at issue. The main reasons why I have never got involved in PPI(apart from once and was none the wiser) was because I believed that it was something to get members of staff sacked. For me, that takes away something from the sepcific argument you have. Staff bonuses are not why the policy is missold. The policies unsuitableness is the main reason.


      However, A&L paid out so a good result.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A&L success

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A&L success

          Originally posted by natweststaffmember View Post
          Hells, I hate, in fact I despise the letters that talk about bonuses for staff. That is not the reason why it is missold, that is not the reason why it is not suitable, it is the policy itself that is at issue. The main reasons why I have never got involved in PPI(apart from once and was none the wiser) was because I believed that it was something to get members of staff sacked. For me, that takes away something from the sepcific argument you have. Staff bonuses are not why the policy is missold. The policies unsuitableness is the main reason.


          However, A&L paid out so a good result.
          Hello Nattie,

          Sorry, I am afraid we will have to disagree on this issue, I suppose it depends which side of the fence you have been.

          Sorry you did not like the letter, but I wrote it based on the fine from the FSA.

          Please have a read of the final issue the FSA sent a&l its long, but I have cut and pasted the relevent section 4.27 regarding their findings on staff renumeration

          Remuneration
          4.27
          The risk arising from these inappropriate sales techniques was further increased by the bonus scheme operated by A&L. A&L advisers and team managers were eligible for potentially significant bonuses which were based on the number of PPI policies sold, the value of those sales and the amount by which those sales exceeded target rates. Advisers also received a much larger incentive to sell PPI than on the associated loan. For example, in 2007 advisers receiving inbound calls needed to sell six loans without insurance to achieve the same bonus that they would receive from only one sale with full insurance. The amount an adviser could make from incentives was substantial: although the average bonus over the Relevant Period in each year was approximately 13% of base salary, advisers could earn substantially more than this.
          4.28
          From 2005 to 2007 the target rates for PPI sales per call were approximately 50% to 55% for non-internet originated-business. Moreover, express provision was made in the 2006 and 2007 bonus schemes that advisers would suffer a 25% penalty to their bonus if they did not achieve these insurance penetration targets.
          4.29
          Whilst there is nothing wrong in principle with a remuneration policy which recognises and rewards sales of insurance, A&L's remuneration structure increased the risk that advisers might make unsuitable sales of PPI to achieve those bonuses. This increased the importance of having robust systems and controls in place to ensure suitable and compliant PPI sales, including the subsequent claw back of bonus from advisers where the compliance quality of their sales was subsequently found to be unsatisfactory or policies were cancelled at an early stage.
          Call review findings
          4.30
          These risks translated in practice into a situation where customers were not treated fairly by A&L when being sold PPI. The FSA’s 2007 call review found that the firm’s approach to sales resulted in the majority of customer calls being handled unfairly where, for example, the adviser:
          Page 9

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A&L success

            Great job and well done hun, you certainly did your homework,
            .

            xxxxx

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A&L success

              In that case, ignore me :o
              Congratulations!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A&L success

                Originally posted by natweststaffmember View Post
                I hate, in fact I despise the letters that talk about bonuses for staff. That is not the reason why it is missold, that is not the reason why it is not suitable, it is the policy itself that is at issue.

                For me, that takes away something from the sepcific argument you have. Staff bonuses are not why the policy is missold. The policies unsuitableness is the main reason.
                I have to say I agree with the above qoute.


                Originally posted by hellhasnofury View Post
                Sorry, I am afraid we will have to disagree on this issue, I suppose it depends which side of the fence you have been.
                IMO its good to have an opinion from the other side of the fence, it helps us with our strenghts and weaknesses lol.

                Sorry you did not like the letter, but I wrote it based on the fine from the FSA.
                IMO one size does not fit all.

                Please have a read of the final issue the FSA sent a&l its long, but I have cut and pasted the relevent section 4.27 regarding their findings on staff renumeration
                The issue of mis-selling of PPI hinges entirely on the facts in each individual case. Carefully assess the strength of your own claim before you proceed any further.

                A claim will depend upon your own financial, employment, health and circumstances at the time of sale and your own knowledge and understanding of the insurance market and what was actually said and done by both parties at the time the insurance was sold to you.

                These cases will boil down to an assessment of each parties version of the actual event and the FOS/Court could do a balance of probabilities test.

                Even if a particular company has been proved to have mis-sold a PPI in a number of cases during a particular period, e.g. has been fined by the FSA for previous cases, you as the claimant will still have to convince the FOS/Court that the company mis-sold your policy to you..

                Be sure that you have sufficient evidence of any of the conditions of mis-sell that you quote in the letter. The company you are claiming against may have enough evidence to refute what you are claiming.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A&L success

                  Originally posted by Rambo View Post
                  I have to say I agree with the above qoute.
                  Originally Posted by hellhasnofury
                  Sorry, I am afraid we will have to disagree on this issue, I suppose it depends which side of the fence you have been.

                  Sorry you did not like the letter, but I wrote it based on the fine from the FSA.

                  Please have a read of the final issue the FSA sent a&l its long, but I have cut and pasted the relevent section 4.27 regarding their findings on staff renumeration
                  The issue of mis-selling of PPI hinges entirely on the facts in each individual case. Carefully assess the strength of your own claim before you proceed any further.

                  A claim will depend upon your own financial, employment, health and circumstances at the time of sale and your own knowledge and understanding of the insurance market and what was actually said and done by both parties at the time the insurance was sold to you.

                  These cases will boil down to an assessment of each parties version of the actual event and the FOS/Court could do a balance of probabilities test.

                  Even if a particular company has been proved to have mis-sold a PPI in a number of cases during a particular period, e.g. has been fined by the FSA for previous cases, you as the claimant will still have to convince the FOS/Court that the company mis-sold your policy to you..

                  Be sure that you have sufficient evidence of any of the conditions of mis-sell that you quote in the letter. The company you are claiming against may have enough evidence to refute what you are claiming.


                  Hello Rambo,

                  Thanks for your input I totally agree with your advice regarding having sufficient evidence of mis-selling that is why you do have to do your homework and look into all aspects of this matter relating to the individual company and your own circumstances at that time.

                  However, I would have considered this is what the fsa have been doing of late with their investigation of the vast mis-selling by financial companies of payment protection insurance and the banning of spi.

                  I would have also considered this is why the fos is upholding 80% of cases as mis-sold and why these companies are offering goodwill gestures with interest, without admittance of the fact.

                  As a matter of interest did you actually read all of the thread, the letter or just get caught up on the one quote and did you notice they had actually refunded the ppi with 8%interest, because it was mis-sold and they know it was.

                  This letter was not about personal attacks on staff it was based on fact, not fiction

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A&L success

                    Originally posted by hellhasnofury View Post
                    As a matter of interest did you actually read all of the thread, the letter or just get caught up on the one quote and did you notice they had actually refunded the ppi with 8%interest, because it was mis-sold and they know it was.
                    TBH, No I didnt read the whole letter lol. Please be gentle with me, Ive not long joined lol.

                    OK Hels, give me a bit of time to catch up please.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A&L success

                      Originally posted by Rambo View Post
                      TBH, No I didnt read the whole letter lol. Please be gentle with me, Ive not long joined lol.

                      OK Hels, give me a bit of time to catch up please.
                      Hello Rambo,

                      Hey, no problems, forgiven absolutely:tung:

                      I do it all the time

                      Welcome to the site

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A&L success

                        Hi Hells,
                        I have read the letter now lol. I suppose it got the result you wanted so who can knoock it, not me. I just wouldnt like to see too much emphasis on the staff bonus arguement but your letter was very good.

                        Few questions though :
                        1) Why have you calculated two different interest rates for the loans ?.
                        2) Was this a SPI ?, if so have you had the whole removal of PPI so its totally dis-associated from the loan ?.

                        As you will well know, these calculations can be a minefield.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A&L success

                          Originally posted by Rambo View Post
                          Hi Hells,
                          I have read the letter now lol. I suppose it got the result you wanted so who can knoock it, not me. I just wouldnt like to see too much emphasis on the staff bonus arguement but your letter was very good.

                          Few questions though :
                          1) Why have you calculated two different interest rates for the loans ?.
                          2) Was this a SPI ?, if so have you had the whole removal of PPI so its totally dis-associated from the loan ?.

                          As you will well know, these calculations can be a minefield.
                          Hello Rambo

                          Answers to your questions

                          I asked for the contractual rate of interest of both of the loans, the only offered statutory interest for both loans, but my daughter was more than happy to accept their offer.

                          They were Spi, both loans were settled and paid off, so they gave the full refund of the spi, the spi interest they applied and statutory interest from the start of the loan. I did check the calculations and to be honest they were more than fair, They were pretty spot on with their calculations and resolved the complaint within a short space of time, after the prelim letter was sent.

                          Hey question for you, what time you going to bed tonight:tung:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A&L success

                            Alls well that ends well. Great result, well done you.

                            Originally posted by hellhasnofury View Post
                            Hey question for you, what time you going to bed tonight:tung:
                            Shift work eh lol. I will be back online at about 4am.

                            I will see you then lol.

                            Comment

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