Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

[LuggerBugs]

The other day, I gad a message left on my phone, supposedly from Welcome Finance, asking me to call them. Unfortunately, the 0800 number wasn't too clear, so I didn't manage to get through. However, I tried the number given on their website, and giving me my account number, told me they didn't see anything that they wanted to talk to me about. So transferred me to my local branch. They didn't see anything untoward either, and were not sure who would have called or why.

Coincidentally, I have just obtained a copy of my Equifax file. A couple of issues. Firstly, there is an alert for a new account being registered with Progressive Financial Services. OK, a Google shows them to be part of the Cattles group, same as Welcome, so I wasn't too bothered. But looking at the credit report itself, I see that there are TWO accounts registered from Welcome, both ROUGHLY the same amount outstanding. WTF? Different account numbers though. One of them being the number given by Welcome head office. Something dodgy going on.

So. I dug out my agreement to confirm the account number. And noticed that Medicare insurance was added... something that I didn't know about at the time. And the PPI is a LOT more than I seem to remember being quoted (yes, I should have checked before signing), but in any case I was told that it was unlikely that I woud get the loan unless I took out the PPI.

Additionally, at the time of signing, the local office cocked up the figures twice, so I had to go back a couple of times to re-sign new paperwork. Hmmm. I'm now going to have to go and TRY to work out whether their figures are correct.

So. Plan of action:

• Phone them at my local branch to query the dual accounts.
• Tell them to cancel my PPI and refund what has been paid so far.
• Ask why I have never received any PPI pack from whoever the insurers are. (How the heck am I supposed to know what the terms are???)
• Query the fact that I have not yet had any statements (although that may be imminent, as it's just about a year since I took out this secured loan.)
• Let them know that I am prepared to play this softly, unless they feck me about, in which case, the full force of the Cabot Fan Club will descend upon them.

That will do for starters.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

The other day, I gad a message left on my phone, supposedly from Welcome Finance, asking me to call them. Unfortunately, the 0800 number wasn't too clear, so I didn't manage to get through. However, I tried the number given on their website, and giving me my account number, told me they didn't see anything that they wanted to talk to me about. So transferred me to my local branch. They didn't see anything untoward either, and were not sure who would have called or why.

Coincidentally, I have just obtained a copy of my Equifax file. A couple of issues. Firstly, there is an alert for a new account being registered with Progressive Financial Services. OK, a Google shows them to be part of the Cattles group, same as Welcome, so I wasn't too bothered. But looking at the credit report itself, I see that there are TWO accounts registered from Welcome, both ROUGHLY the same amount outstanding. WTF? Different account numbers though. One of them being the number given by Welcome head office. Something dodgy going on.

Nothing surprises me about WFS. I will bet that they will blame this on a very crud new computer system the had installed in March 2008 and will say that unfortunately the error was caused by this system selecting a selection of accounts that were similar to you and had been operated in a similar way and making this mistake.

So. I dug out my agreement to confirm the account number. And noticed that Medicare insurance was added... something that I didn't know about at the time. And the PPI is a LOT more than I seem to remember being quoted (yes, I should have checked before signing), but in any case I was told that it was unlikely that I woud get the loan unless I took out the PPI.

Medicare is often mis-sold at the same time as PPI is.

Additionally, at the time of signing, the local office cocked up the figures twice, so I had to go back a couple of times to re-sign new paperwork. Hmmm. I'm now going to have to go and TRY to work out whether their figures are correct.

So. Plan of action:

• Phone them at my local branch to query the dual accounts.

I would deal with head office and ignore the loca branch mate.

• Tell them to cancel my PPI and refund what has been paid so far.

Explain reasons for mis-selling that apply to you and be accurate from what was said at the time of inception. I can help you with a letter that I sent if you like let me know what your reasons were for mis-selling and I will adapt my letter for you or I can post it up and you can tweak to suit your circumstances.

• Ask why I have never received any PPI pack from whoever the insurers are. (How the heck am I supposed to know what the terms are???)

Norwich Union, but the policy wording schedule would have been sent out by Direct group who administer the policies. But you wont have known that if you didn't recieve the schedule.

• Query the fact that I have not yet had any statements

SAR them

That will do for starters.

Get ready for a fight mate.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Softly, softly catchee monkey, Tanz. You know me.... always start off with the Mr Reasonable approach, hiding the iron fist in the velvet glove. And all that crap.

I actually have quite a good relationship with the folks in the local branch. I do understand why they work there, and why they do what they do. So, this will show the main office that I was prepared to be reasonable, and will have greater impact when I get upset with their attitude.

There's an aside to this, that I'm not yet prepared to post until I've done a bit of digging. I need to talk to one of the founders of Welcome. I'm not at all sure that their current business model sits particularly well with this guy's current mission. Can't say too much just yet, as I don't want to accuse him of hypocrisy without foundation. More as and when I get a reply. Or perhaps that should be IF.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

No prob mate whatever you feel is right for you.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

That's the Mr Nice bit out of the way. Apparently, the mix up with account numbers and duplicate entries in my CRA file is down to their cock up with the application forms and their hard sums. Looks like I was sent the paperwork for the forms that we signed originally, but they have only got the last load of bumff on file.

Now, if I was in a mischievous mood, I could have some fun with this. I wonder how far I can bait them with the old Unenforcable Agreement? I'm not up on the CCA 2006, so I'll need to have a read. But I'm inclined to aim high, and start off with telling them I'm not wanting to pay them anymore. Anything after that, such as refunding my PPI, will hopefully seem like an easy way out for them, and look like me compromising. But since I have no idea how much of a sense of humour this lot have, I can't wait to see how they react.

Ain't I a little stinker?

Oh, aye. PPI. I discovered that I'm only covered for 5 years!!!! WTF???? So I asked the lovely Helen (lovely only if you're wearing Beer Goggles, that is) what that was all about, and why wasn't I told about it? Her answer was, it's standard practice, and up to me to sort out insurance after that. Oh dear, says I. I rather think that this is going to get a bit messy.

It's the first time I've ever seen a fat bird go as red as she did. Whether in anger or because she fancies me, I have no idea.

OK, so that's mis-selling because I wasn't told it was an option or that there arealternative products out there, because it was intimated that I wouldn't get the loan without it, because I've never seen a policy yet, wasn't told that an existing medical condition would preclude me from making a claim, and because nobody told me that I was only covered for 5 years. I'll see what else I can think of as I get a letter together, but I'm inclined to question what sort of commission they raked back from the insurers.

I can see the next few weeks being quite fun. Apart from having to try and work out their figures, that is. Can anybody point me in the direction of a handy spready to help with that?

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

OK, gloves are off. Here's my first draft to Welcome. Comments anyone?

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXXXXX
It is with regret that I have cause to write to you to complain.

I have recently checked my credit file with Equifax, and discovered that there are two entries relating to a loan agreement that I entered into with your company in February 2008. I checked the paperwork that your office sent out relating to that agreement, and the account number on that agreement, dated 12 February 2009, is YYYYYYY. I telephoned The ------- branch to query this, and was told that my account number is actually XXXXXXX.

The Peterhead branch was kind enough to immediately supply me with a copy of my agreement, which does indeed show that the account number is XXXXXXX. However, on closer inspection, I see that the Payment Protection Insurance that I was sold along with the policy is only effective for 5 years. When I pointed this out to the ------- office I was informed that this is standard, and that I should seek insurance elsewhere after 5 years.

Today, I have further investigated, and have discovered other irregularities, which lead me to believe that I have been mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance. This is for the following reasons:

• I was told at the time of taking out the loan that PPI was a condition of acceptance for credit.
• I was not told that the period of cover was only for 5 years, which in effect means that should I find it necessary to claim for the full 12 month period, the insurance would actually have cost me considerably more than would have been paid out in repayments.
• I was not told that pre-existing medical conditions might preclude me from making a claim: I suffer from hypertension, and will be on medication for the rest of my life.
• I was never informed that PPI was optional, or that I could purchase it elsewhere.

In addition, I notice that Accidental Injury insurance was added to the agreement, with neither my knowledge nor consent.

In consequence, I must ask you to immediately cancel all insurance policies. Further, as I consider that Welcome Finance have mis-sold me these policies, I require you to refund all monies already paid in relation to said policies.

Additionally, I require that ALL monies paid to you for any insurance whatsoever relating to any loan agreement that I have previously entered into with Welcome Finance be repaid to me. This for the same reasons given above, in that I was mis-sold that insurance, and that said insurance was at best, unsuitable to protect me in the event that I would have needed to make a claim.

Please note too, that I consider in the case of my current agreement with Welcome Finance that, since the figures listed on the Credit Agreement are inaccurate due to the inclusion of mis-sold insurance, the agreement is improperly executed. Please note also, that the agreement supplied to me by your ------- branch is unsigned by Welcome Finance. You will of course be well aware that this means that the agreement might be considered to be unenforceable, were I to challenge the validity of that agreement. You should also note that I do not yet, at this stage, intend to challenge the agreement on this basis. Nor do I, as yet, intend to look in any greater detail whether or not there are any other areas of concern.

Please respond to this complaint at your earliest convenience, and certainly within 10 days. Failure to address my concerns to my satisfaction will mean that I shall have no option other than to escalate my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service in the first instance. I should also appreciate you furnishing me with a copy of your complaints procedure.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Get a screen print of the info before it gets removed or print out file if not already done so mate.

Same old same old story from WFS. I wish I knew someone who worked there who could provide the sales script for the loan selling lol. It would sort things out much quicker for refunds.

Remember you'll need to give them 8 weeks to either resolve or issue you with their final response before going to the FOS. as I am sure you know.

Dont forget to also include include all payments and interest levied as a result of the PPI being applied.

SAR them if not already done.

Request they provide any demands ad needs assessment applicable at the time of the loan inception.

[Curlyben]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Also request the underwriters sheet as this will show the commission paid on the PPI

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Cheers Tanz & CB. Interesting points to add. I don't expect them to respond favourably to the first letter, if at all, so I'm omitting figures at this point until my SAR request is satisfied. I can be more specific in my second letter. Replied to your PM too Tanz.

Yup, 40 days to respond to my SAR, so that will take me that bit closer to the 8 week point, and give me a bit to work out how much they owe me on each account. I've also been advised that the FOS will need a seperate complaint for each account too. That will keep me busy. But at least this first letter has kicked off the 8 week clock.

I do actually have a friend who used to be a branch manager at Welcome. I wonder if I could persude her to blow the auld whistle or two. :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Hi Luggerbugs.

Split any claim for charges into one claim and then any PPI clain as another claim.

FOS are looking at two of my accounts for PPI mis-selling together as one claim.

Depending on the dates when you took out the loan it will depend on whether the FOS will look into the PPI.

For example if the loan was taken out after 14 Jan 2005 then its a dead cert they will. However prior to this it depends on whether the firm was a member of GISC (General Insurance Standards Council). Welcome Finance were members of GISC from 23/02/2003 and I have a screen print from the FOS database which proves this. Therefore the FOS have retrospective jurisdiction for PPI claims against WFS from 23/02/03.

For more info on this see here:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...nsu_interm.htm

[Sapphire]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

See if you can get hold of a copy of any scripts that your friend might just have lying about. You never know if you whisper sweet nothings in her ear, she might even be in touch with old workmates and might be able to purloin even more information.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

I do actually have a friend who used to be a branch manager at Welcome. I wonder if I could persude her to blow the auld whistle or two. :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

Yeah that would be good if you could get hold of sales scripts pre Jan 2005 when they became regulated by FSA.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

I'll have a word.

I may also have another avenue into their secret world. I'll update if it develops into something positive.

Letter has gone. For reasons that Tanz will understand, I can't publish it here. But It's fairly close to the one above, with a few useful additions.

Just need to be patient for the next 8 weeks now.

Perhaps I can find another target to annoy while I'm waiting.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

A couple of new points... firstly my failure to "aweet talk" my contact into handing over state secrets. She's apparently quite proud of the way she ran her office and won't say a word against them. That's her off my Christmas card list then.

Secondly, I've had a thought. I rearranged my Welcome loan a couple of times, and each time new PPI was included in the new agreement. However, I'm sure that the settlement figure included repaying the full amount of PPI in the old agreement. So that's another reason for mis-selling as far as I can see.

Still waiting for a reply. They can take as long as they want, cos on the dot of 8 weeks being up, its off to the FOS I go.

Apparently, there is something like 90% of PPI complaints are upheld by the FOS, so that gives a fair indication of the fact that complaining IS worthwhile about this issue if any newbies are having doubts.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/campaig...in_page_id=506

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/art....html?ITO=1490

Yep