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Bank Smart - Breach of Contract

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  • Bank Smart - Breach of Contract

    Hi
    i can see there are various threads about Bank Smart but non that apply fully to my situation. I signed 3 no Letters of Authority for Ascend Finance in Sept 2017 to pursue PPI/PBA claims against Lloyds and Barclays.

    I received around £600 from Lloyds and paid the commission to Ascend. I heard no more about the 2 Barclays claims.

    Then a year or so later I received two Letter of Authority forms from Bank Smart which listed the same 20 companies on each with very limited detail and asked me to sign and date. One headed PPI and one headed Default Charges. My wife and I signed these forms on 18/8/19, believing it was on a no win no fee basis but there were no terms or conditions on these forms.

    Since then I have been asked for various new LOA forms to be signed and been sent Charges Questionnaires to complete for a lot of the companies.

    Some months later, i am not sure of exact time i was sent a password and user number to log into ' my account ' . This was the first i heard about this.

    When i logged in there were 48 claims listed. Some were the initial 20 that were listed on the original LOA but the rest i presume Bank Smart obtained from my credit file without my knowledge.

    Most of these claims were saying they were awaiting Charges Questionnaires or LOA's. The first seven were saying Cancelled - No further fee.

    I then noticed all the bad publicity surrounding this company on the internet and decided it was best not to sign anything further but i did not cancel any claims either.

    I issued a formal complaint on 5/11/20 which they acknowledged but i did not receive a final response.

    I formally requested details of all information that Bank Smart held for us via a GDPR request Feb 2021.

    February 2021 they sent all the documents in the post including copies of the initial contract i signed with Ascend Finance including terms and conditions and the LOA's showing the 3 initial claims.

    They also sent copies of their initial Bank Smart LOA's with the 20 companies listed. There is no reference to any terms and conditions on these and the back of these sheets are blank. As are subsequent copies they have sent since then asking us to sign.

    They also sent various replies from some of the companies they have tried to claim against but not all of them. Most replies said there was no PPI attached to the claim.

    They also sent a time log of all the activity against each claim and some copies of emails between us. One of these logs on 17/11/20 is some text saying they have investigated my formal complaint that i did not believe i had submitted any claims but they say they hold a valid signed LOA for every claim they are processing. They also said they enclosed the terms that were assigned to them by Ascend Finance. They also said as long as we dont cancel or breach the agreement they will only charge if a settlement is made. This is their final response.

    I then received an email from Bank Smart on 7/5/21 saying there is an invoice on my account if i log in to see it. It is for Breach of contract on one of the claims and is for £348.00. There is no breakdown or detail or even invoice to see.

    I have disputed the invoice until they can show me signed contracts where i have clearly agreed to their charges etc.

    I have lodged a claim with the Financial Ombudsman who have said their backlog is around 4 months.

    I have emailed Bank Smart back asking to see copies of any contractual agreement between us for each claim that clearly shows their terms and conditions and charges. I have asked for details of my agreement for them to access our credit files and i have pointed out the contract between Ascend and ourselves was for only 3 claims.

    We are obviously worried they are going to try and claim breach of contract for the remaining 40 claims, so we would be extremely grateful for any advice.

    Many thanks



    Tags: None

  • #2
    Hi & welcome.

    You did exactly the right thing going to the Ombudsman, but did that complaint cover just the £348.00 breach of contract invoice or the entire issue about what claims are covered by what contracts?

    Bank Smart bought lots of consumer contracts from Ascend but the assignment clause (clause 12 in the attached document) in the Ascend T&Cs states that they will notify you if that happens. They never notified anyone and I assume they didn't notify you. Clause 12 also says that the terms remain if the contract is assigned so you're right to point out the anomaly between Bank Smart's LOAs and Acsend's contractual terms. The breach of contract that Bank Smart will be relying on is 3.1 but it doesn't say what the consequence/cost is for not complying with it.

    The Ombudsman has issued several appeal decisions on breach of contract and cancellation charges where they've upheld the complaints on the basis that Bank Smart were not clear on how much the charges would be:

    Decision Reference DRN-2238057 (financial-ombudsman.org.uk)

    Decision Reference DRN-2120614 (financial-ombudsman.org.uk)

    So I would be reasonably confident the Ombudsman will uphold your complaint about the £348.00 invoice but I'm not sure if that complaint covers the status of the other 40 odd claims.

    Could you post up the complaint you sent the Ombudsman please, redacting any personal info?

    [Thread moved to Claims Management forum]

    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi

      Thanks for prompt reply.

      I received Ascend's Terms in the GDPR pack and there is no letter in the GDPR pack or one that i can recall receiving from Ascend where they have informed me of assigning any contracts.

      There is no letter in the GDPR pack from Bank Smart saying they have been assigned contracts either.

      There are no terms from Bank Smart in the GDPR pack.

      I completed a claims form for the Ombudsman and referred on the form to my email as below that i had sent them initially. I also attached to this email a screen print of my Bank Smart account which shows the 48 claims. This email was sent before i received the GDPR pack. The complaint to the Ombudsman was prior to receiving the invoice for the £348 :-


      -----------------------------------------------------------------------

      Good Afternoon

      i was wondering if you can advise or help with this please.

      A year or so ago i think i signed a form to instruct Bank Smart to check if i had been mis sold any PPI.

      I don’t have a copy of the form.

      Since then it appears Bank Smart have accessed my credit file and issued claims against every company on my file as the copy of my account with Bank Smart shows below.

      They write to me from time to time asking for me to sign an updated Letter of Authority or ask for additional information which i don’t have.

      I note on the internet that there are a huge amount of complaints against this company as it appears , they bombard clients with these forms etc and if they don’t receive the information back they say the client is in breach of contract and issue a charge for their lost time and for cancelling the instruction.

      In a lot of cases i have read , they then sell the debt to a collection agency and the clients are pursued for this debt, through the courts in some cases.

      I wrote a ‘ Formal Complaint ‘ email to them on 5/11/20 , stating that i don’t believe i asked them to pursue these companies, and if i did , could they provide proof.

      I received an automated email acknowledgement , but no reply to my email.

      On receiving another Letter of Authority form today, i have re sent my formal complaint email - re - iterating that i do not believe i have instructed them to pursue these claims.

      The reason i am emailing you is that i can see my case is going down the same route as many others on the internet forums and i believe it is only a matter of time before they start sending me invoices.

      I believe you may have received a lot of complaints about this company and wonder if you can advise me on the best course of action.

      ----------------------------------------------------------------------

      It does get a little confusing as BS 's final response to my initial formal complaint on 5/11/20 was not received but i noticed text on their time log in the GDPR pack where they gave their response. Just saying they have a LOA for each claim and they referred to assigned claims from Ascend.

      So as i had not received a response by email or post i sent further complaints to them after receiving further documents etc basically just asking for proof of our contract with them and copies of where it shows their terms , breakdown of their charge and how their charges are calculated etc etc.

      I am still awaiting responses to these further questions.


      I have sent the following email to the Ombudsman on 7/5/21 after receiving the first invoice from BS ( I only noticed BS's final response to my first formal complaint after i sent this email ) :-

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------


      Hello


      Further to my previous correspondence , i have not received a response from Symmetric Systems Ltd regarding my complaint.

      This response is now well past the timescales indicated at the outset.

      I have today received an email from them saying they have issued an invoice to me, and if i log into my account i can see this etc.

      I have logged in but there is just an amount showing as due for £348. There is no invoice or breakdown to show how/why this has been calculated.

      I have emailed them today to say i am awaiting a response to my formal complaint and that i will not be paying this invoice or corresponding with them further until i have received a detailed response to my complaint.

      I did request details of any data that they hold on file and they did send this through.

      I can not see from any of the correspondence they sent where i have entered into a contract with them, or where they have clearly detailed any charges for their services.

      I have sent them further emails with queries regarding this information and asked them to respond to these as part of their overall response to my formal complaint.

      I can send you copies of the latest emails if you require.

      Please can you let me know if i need to do anything in the meantime or if i should just await a response from them.

      Many thanks for your help with this.

      Regards

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      I received a response to this email from the Ombudsman on 11/5/21 saying there is a 4 month backlog.

      I presume the Ombudsman will contact me before reviewing the case and gather the whole facts before making any decision.

      So whilst i have only received one invoice to date , hopefully we can set the principle which will cover all the other claims at the same time, as i am sure BS will raise more charges in the future.

      I really appreciate your help with this and any further advice you can give.

      Thank you.

      Regards
      Last edited by Casio123; 19th May 2021, 15:14:PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ok I'm not sure when you filed the complaint with the Ombudsman but they will contact you when the case actually gets assigned to a case worker (which will be a few months) and at which point you can submit documents etc.

        The most important thing is to get hold of the breakdown of charges that make up the £348 invoice. I know you've asked for it but keep on at them for it.

        Other than that there's not much you can do at the moment but give me a shout whenever anything occurs.

        This is a classic bait & trap move by them. They issue a 'breach of contract' invoice to scare you into cancelling the rest of the claims and then hit you with ridiculous cancellation charges for the rest of the supposed claims.

        Comment


        • #5
          Many thanks, i will chase for the breakdown of charges and let you know when i receive anything. Thanks again- much appreciated. Regards

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Casio123 could you email me at nick@legalbeaglesgroup.com so I can respond with some information please?

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi
              further to previous posts, i have now received a reply and decision from the Financial Services Ombudsman as below :-

              ================================================== ==================================

              We now have all the information we need to look into your complaint. Based on what I’ve seen, I don’t think Symmetric Systems Ltd needs to take any action. I’ve explained why below.

              Complaint summary


              You are unhappy with Symmetric Systems Ltd (Bank-Smart).

              You have told us that you have signed a Letter of Authority in order for Bank-Smart to pursue claims on your behalf.

              However, following this you have incurred charges for failing to provide information. You state that although you had signed the Letter of Authority you were not provided with a copy of Bank-Smart terms.

              As such, you would like our service to look into this further.



              My findings


              I’ve looked at all the points raised by both parties and considered whether Bank-Smart has done something wrong.


              Bank-Smart has told us that an outstanding fee remains on the account as they need some information for a claim submitted however once this is received the fee will be cancelled.


              I’ve had a look at Bank-Smart’s terms and conditions, and they state that they may cancel the agreement if they are not provided with the documentation requested. If this is done a fee will be charged at a rate of £50 for an hour’s work.


              I appreciate what you have told us regarding the terms not being issued, I’m sure what you have said is true to the best of your knowledge but in the circumstances, I need to rely on the evidence.

              The Letter of Authority signed on 18 September 2017 stated the following:


              “I confirm I have received, read and agreed to the Terms and Conditions that were enclosed with this letter of engagement”.


              I can also see that on 18 August 2019 another Letter of Authority was signed. I think on balance its reasonable to say the terms would also have been issued out. I’d expect you to have raised concerns about this if they weren’t or not agree to them without knowing the terms you were agreeing to be legally bound by.


              My conclusions


              Based on the information and evidence that’s been provided I won’t be asking Bank-Smart to do anything more to resolve this complaint.


              I appreciate you may not have received the terms, but I need to rely on the evidence I have available to me. And on balance I’m satisfied the terms would have been issued out with the Letters of Authority.
              Next steps

              I think this is a fair outcome in the circumstances, for the reasons I’ve explained. But if you decide that you don't accept what I’ve said, then please let me know by 16 July 2021. If I can’t resolve things then an ombudsman here can look at everything again and make a final decision. If I don’t hear from you by that date we might not be able to look at your complaint again.
              ================================================== ================================================== =============

              I am going to go back to the FSO as i dont agree with their findings or conclusion.

              The Letter of Authority from Bank Smart on 18/8/19 does not have any terms and conditions on, nor does it say they are attached or included etc. Also none of the correspondence received from BS under the GDPR have any terms and conditions on or even refer to any.

              The reference to the terms the FSO is referring to above is on the Ascend Finance Letter of Engagement dated 18/9/17 and not Bank Smarts LOA dated 18/8/19.

              Also Ascend Finance terms state we would be notified of any assignment , which we were not and there is nothing in the GDPR pack to prove otherwise.

              On the initial BS LOA , there are 20 companies listed but now on my account with BS there are around 48.

              The FSO have said if i provide the information requested , which is just a further LOA for one claim they will cancel the charges invoice they have raised.
              I dont want to sign this LOA but could this be an option ? My concern is the other 40 plus claims that may go down the same route as most of them are saying they are awaiting a Charges Questionnaire.

              Once again any help would be greatly appreciated.

              Many thanks

              PS i have just noticed your post on 2/6/21 asking me to email you , do you still want me to do this ? Thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                PS - I have not received any breakdown of the charges from BS

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hiya

                  It's unfortunate that you didn't see my post.

                  Because I never saw the complaint you made to the Ombudsman it makes

                  You need to get back to the FOS and tell them you don't agree and to have the decision reviewed.

                  Also ask them for the breakdown of the charges that BS would have provided to them. Tell them you've never received them and it would not be reasonable to be expected to pay until you did.

                  In the meantime do you have access to your Bank Smart online account?

                  The FSO have said if i provide the information requested , which is just a further LOA for one claim they will cancel the charges invoice they have raised.
                  For the moment it might be better if you did.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi
                    thanks for reply.
                    yes I have access to my account.
                    the invoice now says it’s on hold until December 21.

                    To clarify, do you think I should sign the LOA they are wanting, relating to the invoice they raised even though I know there is no PPI or charges attached to that credit card etc .

                    There are another 20 or so claims on my account where the status is ‘ awaiting charges questionnaire’
                    I have not sent these back as again I am sure there is no PPI or charges attached to them and I don’t have any of the information they are asking.

                    thanks again

                    Regards

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Casio123 View Post
                      Hi

                      yes I have access to my account.
                      the invoice now says it’s on hold until December 21.
                      Ahh ok in that case don't sign & return the LOA. Keep your eye on the invoice status and let me know if it changes.

                      In the meantime do as I advised ie get back to the FOS and tell them you don't agree and ask to have the decision reviewed and ask for the breakdown of charges for the invoice.




                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi

                        Further to your email, the assignment point, whilst valid, won't get taken seriously by either Bank Smart or the Ombudsman so not worth pursuing.

                        I wouldn't return the charges questionnaires for the moment.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Thanks for this.

                          The FSO is saying the terms and conditions are on the Ascend finance Letter of Engagement which i did sign.

                          They are also working on the assumption that the terms were also sent with the subsequent LOA from BS ( They definitely were not )

                          BS defence would be the Ascend Finance terms were valid as they were assigned from A

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            continued

                            Ascend.
                            However i did not receive a letter from Ascend informing me of the assignment which they say they will do in their terms.
                            I dont recall receiving a letter from BS about the assignment either. There was no such letter in the GDPR pack that BS sent me.

                            If you are saying the FSO wont consider the assignment issue , do i have any argument other than BS substantiating the invoice charge of £388 ?

                            Ascend terms say they will charge £50 an hour.

                            Just trying to think how i can query the FSO decision ?

                            Thanks again

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Casio123 View Post
                              If you are saying the FSO wont consider the assignment issue , do i have any argument other than BS substantiating the invoice charge of £388 ?

                              Ascend terms say they will charge £50 an hour.
                              Yes, that the so-called 'claim' is 4 years old and clearly hasn't been submitted to the lender. Also Bank Smart don't charge by the hour so that's why need the invoice breakdown to prove it.

                              Comment

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