Hearing date set for November - Need help

[Amethyst]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

One thing I can show in my arguements that hardship was caused almost as a direct result of the amount of charges.
One monthHSBC took out £150 in charges, it is worth noting that I had never before recieved any charges as I had been able to manage if I was careful yet that was the start of the concurrent charges a snow ball effect if you will, i could never get back to the position I was in before. It was therefore an issue actually created by the bank which put me in that god awful position. The charges were for an unpaid direct debit which i spoke to the bank about and told them my wages would be paid later that month than normal, instead they just applied charge upon charge.
If I can demonstrate this fact in the court with the legal arguments to back it up surely the judge (if not an idiot) can see that if I wouldn't have been charged so much then I would not have had any more charges. Thats the angle I was going to go with along with the other arguments above and placing the burden of proof upon the bank.

I understand now that every arguement will need to be tailored to the individuals circumstances and I just need help putting it down on paper - then I can try my very best on the dayknowing that I at least had some good issues and arguments that the bank could not just brush under the carpet.

I understand it is extremely frustrating, (I pull my hair out constantly over it and just want to scream at the Supreme Court & OFT for getting it so damn wrong) but the position at the moment is the charges are legal - doesnt mean they are fair, rather means that in law the charges do not have to be fair (crap eh!).

Burden of proof is on the bank against specific allegations, not a general 'this is unfair prove it isnt'.

Best thing to do is write down, going through statements and records, exactly the impact of the charges, realistically and coldly, as a court would. Then we'll have a better idea of the circumstances too.

And have a good read of the discussions on here surrounding the legalities of charges (theres a lot) and other peoples cases (again a lot but the main ones in the VIP bank charges forum I pointed you to)

[Amethyst]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

Do you own your own home / have any assets btw ? (thinking on long term effects of costs awarded against you wise)

[Zorro01]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

I am on benefits and have no assets. My health as deteriorated and i get dla and esa (support group). thats all really. like i say I have nothing to lose LITERALLY so it is worth a shot I think.

[Amethyst]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

Sound

Well have a good read and a think about what you want to do then.

[Zorro01]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

Above where it states I have to provide examples of how the relationship is heavly weighed in the banks favour - well I have been looking through all my statements today and I have noticed several annomalies which might demonstrate the one sidedness of the banks.
I don't know if this is the norm but I thought I would share a couple of examples that someone could comment on... here goes.....
1. I never had an overdraft on my account and even when I asked for one when I knew there would be problems with my wages etc they said no..... however on numerous occassions this happened.
23 october 2006 - 3 mobile tried to take their £5.99 payment via direct debit - I was £1.03 over my limit and HSBC wouldn't let me increase overdraft to accomodate the payment - it was reversed and I recieved a charge £25.00. 2 days later however HSBC autorised it.
3 november 2006 - I was still asking for an overdraft to cover my outgoings until my wages were paid they still refused - Another DD was due and was reversed and was then paid the FOLLOWING day by HSBC despite there still being no money in my account. On the one hand they wouldn't authorise an overdraft but they didn't mind levying the charges.
2 months later I asked again as I was between jobs and needed to be tied over for 2 weeks until payday - they refused knowing it was going to cost me.
I was left with no choice than to just use my card to pay for things (but without the offical overdraft) they didn't mind me using the non existing overdraft.

For example they would not authorise a DD of £5.99 to be paid but they would let me withdraw£50 - £100.
This went on for a long time. They used the reversal trick repeatedly - 27 June 2007 my account was £300 + pounds overdrawn (without an overdraft facility) I recieved 2 reversals on the same date above totalling £50 in charges and then the very next day HSBC allowed them to go through. I get charged £50 and then I owe so much more on my overdraft.

3rd August 2007 £1700 was paid into my bank however I recieved a reversal and a charge and then the same day it was paid.

Is this the norm for banks to carry on thisway? Am I being naive?
This is surely proof of the total dominering power over the customer by the banks themselves. They are happy to pay it but they are going to get a charge out of you first. It seems very one sided to me.

I don't know if this info helps but I am desperatly trying to think of some arguements that might make it difficult for the bank to justify the actions as above.

I am happy to go to court with any arguements that anyone thinks could get the job done so if you want I don't mind being a guinea pig for the greater good.

[middenmess]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

I am on benefits and have no assets. My health as deteriorated and i get dla and esa (support group). thats all really. like i say I have nothing to lose LITERALLY so it is worth a shot I think.

Just my thoughts on this.....

Before you embark on what is likely to be an arduous and stressful journey with the possibility of just extreme frustration at the end of it,I think that a final approach to the bank should be made.

In this you would fully detail your request for the return of all the excessive charges that you have endured including details of the hardship it has caused you and the detrimental effect it has had on your well being.

You would take great pains to convey to them that should your appeal for compassion and reason fall on deaf ears then you would immediately continue down the court route and would ensure that the case attracted as much media attention as possible.

You would also empathise your financial situation of absolutely no assets whatsover-a woman of straw- and that there existed the possibility that if the Bank successfully defended against your claim their extreme expense occured in so doing could be seen as evidence of their intention to crush any resistance or challenge to their perceived omnipotent position by the poorest members of society.

The phrasing of the letter might well be crucial as you would need to avoid any intimation that it could seen to be a form of blackmail.

If I was charged as a bank employee to deal with such a situation I would not hesitate to deal with your claim with understanding and common sense--but regrettably those two virtues are not overly evident within the Banking industry.

As others have pointed out,the chances of your success in a court action can only be assessed as slim on a good day with a following wind and rather than pursue that course I for one would hope that if you did make one final appeal to the Bank,that they would see sense and accomodate your justified request.

I wish you success in whichever path you follow but please don't let the Banks attitude and defence if you go to court affect your health as that is much more important than trying to defeat them.

[Zorro01]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

hello all.

I have had a long hard think about things and have taken everything above and what I have been reading into consideration; my conclusion is I am going to be in with the best chance going to the financial ombudsman at the moment. Court route is just to risky I feel. I can possibly go back to court at a later date if the ombudsman route fails.
Thanks for all your help

[EXC]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

Good decision.

Just like a court claim, your complaint to the Ombudsman should rely heavily on examples in order to demonstrate unfairness. This is what is to be gleaned from this rejection response from the FOS Legal Beagles Consumer Forum - View Single Post - Financial Ombudsman rejecting complaints on Bank Charges

[Amethyst]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

An excellent decision and thank you for going through your statements and writing down the specific instances, it helps you see you case from an outsiders point of view a bit doesnt it. If you need help with letters or the FOS complaint just shout.

[wheazy57]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

I am new here and have read the posts by Zorro with interest. I dont mean to split the conversation but I am absolutely stunned to hear that the court cases are still going ahead. My claim is 'held' as the results of the win for the banks came just before I was due to go to court. I have heard nothing since either from the court or the bank. I then claimed going down the hardship route but Lloyds would have none of it. They have since washed their hands of me. Does this mean therefore that the court claim has ended too?Communication in this is dire I must say.

wheazy57.

[EXC]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

I would contact the court and ask them for the status of your claim.

[dyfrigj]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

I'm slightly confused about the talk of costs which are on here. I have a hearing date for early January, in the Small Claims Track. It is my understanding that costs in the Small Claims are restricted to 10% of the claimed amount. Is this true? Or am I taking a risk by pursuing my claim?

[EXC]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

I'm slightly confused about the talk of costs which are on here. I have a hearing date for early January, in the Small Claims Track. It is my understanding that costs in the Small Claims are restricted to 10% of the claimed amount. Is this true? Or am I taking a risk by pursuing my claim?

There is always a risk of costs in small claims but even so the bank can successfully apply to have the case heard in a higher court where costs are routinely awarded and this is happening with bank charges cases in Scotland.

[dyfrigj]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

But surely if the case is moved to the Multi Track, I can withdraw my claim?

[EXC]

Re: Hearing date set for November - Need help

TBH I don't know if once it gets moved that you wouldn't be liable for costs if you withdraw by virtue of you withdrawing while it's in fast track. It might be better to withdraw at the point the bank applies to have it moved.