PDLs and S87(1) DNs

[warwick65]

Just a general query

Is there a requirement for a PDL to issue a S87(1) DN before a claim?

I realise there are basically two types of PDLs
1) A short term loan, in the old days often for a month (sometimes less) .
2) A type of revolving credit so you had a credit limit and could keep drawing on it as long as you paid it off on time.

I think that option 2 would demand a DN but does option 1?
There seem to be lots of claims about on PDLs atm where there is no mention of DNs

I clearly have a few - some have sent them and some have not
[MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] [MENTION=48934]Debt Camel[/MENTION] [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=551]pt2537[/MENTION] [MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION]

I ask because lets face it, most PDLs do not warrant the use of a solicitor as they are often a small amount and it seems much less clear than say catalogue debts or the £200 Cap 1 type thing.

There must be a way of challenging PDL court claims

[charitynjw]

Re: PDLs and S87(1) DNs

Hi Warwick

Far as I know, any debtor-creditor agreements which are not exempt (which I don't think PDLs are), or are small agreements (under about £50?), are regulated, so ss86 & 87 kick in.
Even with small agreements, if there is more than one agreement (ie multiple loans) running concurrently with the same lender, I believe the court can take the view that it has been done in an attempt to circumvent CCA & can decide that they all are regulated.

[Debt Camel]

Re: PDLs and S87(1) DNs

There must be a way of challenging PDL court claims

Yes - an unfair relationships defence. Not easy...

Best option is not to let them get to court but put in an affordability before that point.

[warwick65]

Re: PDLs and S87(1) DNs

Yes - an unfair relationships defence. Not easy...

Best option is not to let them get to court but put in an affordability before that point.

Yes but the question was really about a DN. Some pdls send DNs some don't. Non of the ones I ever received have been compliant in form or content. If a compliant DN needs to be served then surely it is part of a defence.

[warwick65]

Re: PDLs and S87(1) DNs

Just to add, the problem is as well, many of the PDL's that are coming to court at the moment are from 2011 and 2012 which was before the crackdown by the FCA and as such an affordability complaint is much harder to win or so I would have thought. I am trying not to be too much glass half empty.

I am in a difficult position in that some of my PDLs have been written off e.g Wonga and PTP , others have been returned to the OC's after complaints against the debt purchaser etc and most go SB sometime from January 2018 so it seems that I really do not want to take the risk of acknowledging the debt with 5 months to go

The bulk of PDL claims that we see seem to be lending stream and now WDA or other debts owned by the group of charlatans in Bradford

Looking around the forums there have, in the past been so many stories about PDLs such as a Yamaha keyboard enthusiast( or is it a Suzuki/Yamaha motorbike) who sais no PDL would ever go to court! and another old girl who told a silly tale it was loan+1 months interest.

Finally , most of the debt purchased loans do not seem to have bothered sending out statements- at least mine haven't which is another bar to enforcement I think but again, not an area I could help argue.

[charitynjw]

Re: PDLs and S87(1) DNs

Lord Justice Clarke, in McGinn v Grangewood Securities, said of the CCA

.......so as to make it comprehensible to layman and lawyer alike. At present it is certainly not comprehensible to the former and is scarcely comprehensible to the latter.

Mind you, that was 2002.
It's much simpler now.
Not!

[Debt Camel]

Re: PDLs and S87(1) DNs

Just to add, the problem is as well, many of the PDL's that are coming to court at the moment are from 2011 and 2012 which was before the crackdown by the FCA and as such an affordability complaint is much harder to win or so I would have thought. I am trying not to be too much glass half empty.

No that's totally wrong. the OFT rules on irresponsible lending were pretty much the same as the FCAs. It isn't harder to win old cases IF you borrowed repeatedly from the same lender.

Small number of loans are harder because the lenders weren't obliged to check credit records back then,

I am in a difficult position in that some of my PDLs have been written off e.g Wonga and PTP , others have been returned to the OC's after complaints against the debt purchaser etc and most go SB sometime from January 2018 so it seems that I really do not want to take the risk of acknowledging the debt with 5 months to go

Well that is a dilemma. But if you borrowed repeatedly from the same lender you have a good chance of winning an affordability complaint. And far fewer cases are drifting into being statute barred these days - there were 300,000 CCJs in the first three months of 2017.

But it may be that some payday lenders won't want to start court cases - who knows?

If you had a write off from wonga, have you looked at whether you could make an affordability claim for previous loans with them?

The bulk of PDL claims that we see seem to be lending stream and now WDA or other debts owned by the group of charlatans in Bradford

mmm possibly but that is a bit self reinforcing. People are more likely to post here if they googled for their particular creditor/debt collector and found another beagles thread.

Looking around the forums there have, in the past been so many stories about PDLs such as a Yamaha keyboard enthusiast( or is it a Suzuki/Yamaha motorbike) who sais no PDL would ever go to court! and another old girl who told a silly tale it was loan+1 months interest.

I don't read that sort of stuff

most of the debt purchased loans do not seem to have bothered sending out statements- at least mine haven't which is another bar to enforcement I think but again, not an area I could help argue.

I think the need to send annual statements only applies to contracts over 12 months in duration.

[warwick65]

Re: PDLs and S87(1) DNs

[MENTION=19893]Deb[/MENTION]tcamel

I am struggling to remember just who I had multiple rollovers with and which of those have been paid off and which are still outstanding
Some were in 2009/10 although in a DMP until 2012, others paid off with partial settlements after much negotiation , at least one other written off by MMF after a FOS complaint

I suppose I could get my old Santander accounts out and see
I seem to remember Fortress group had many many rollovers with me entering a paydown program at least twice but can't remember who they were

[Debt Camel]

Re: PDLs and S87(1) DNs

Fortress was probably part of the Elevate group, most famous brand name Sunny.

[warwick65]

Re: PDLs and S87(1) DNs

1month loan I think it was. Long ago different email address different lifetime