Bluebell vs Lloyds

[Bluebell]

Hi, I have another thread in the debt forum Bluebell's debt thread on which Scooby said to post here are there is a glimmer of hope re having the stay lifted. Rather than type everything out again I'll look for my original Lloyds thread and copy it here. Just briefly the claim was stayed, I applied for it to be lifted and the judge said no. I am on a low income now, have quite a bit of debt and am expecting a baby in next few weeks. This forum has helped me regain my sanity and realise there's more to life than worrying about it all but it would come at just the right moment if I could get things moving with my Lloyds claim.

[scoobydoo]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Hi Bluebell

I think at thement IMO that your case should not have been processed through the court system . the tactic wll be to rely on the wording from the waiver that the banks should deal with hardship cases during the waiver - outside the court system so we wil not try and have the stay lifted. If you think about it the bankining code is voluntary and each bank can have their own criteria for what they consider to be financial hardship so a judge can not really ake a ruling on that .

EXC has spoken to the people who issued the new 2008 banking code and we have some clearer guidlines.

I think we should write letter to LLoyds reminding them of the waiver and the fact that they should be deaing with your case and if they do not consider you are a hardship case then they should give reasons in writing. They are aware of your circmstances because of your hearing so we can use that to try and push them. The A&L one I have seen is just claiming fiancial diffiulties now - but I am checking what tactics they used - they have an offer in writing.

Can you confirm are all the charges still unpaid - i.e. in the form of a current overdraft - or did you repay the OD by a loan or anything?

Sorry if I pop in and out - supposed to be doing work at home.

jan

[Bluebell]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Jan thank you for your help !!! Some charges were paid (if I had any money in the account) - the remainder are included in a giant OD (2200) but I have just found out that they have reduced my OD to 1400 - I think I need to send them a new IE form. I don't know if they have charged me as the only statements I can see on line are April and before - May doesn't appear yet. They did make a goodwill payment of about 600 last year, which I said I wouldn't accept but I was desperate and spent it on rent.

[scoobydoo]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Dear Sir/Madam

Reference case number

I am sure , you are fully aware of the FSA’s Waiver hardship conditions, I quote them below because of your apparent refusal to acknowledge them in my case. The FSA made the following statement in its Waiver announcement of 27 July 2007.

"Consumers who are in very difficult financial circumstances - 'hardship cases'
Banks and building societies will have to conduct a filtering process to ensure that cases of genuine hardship are still dealt with during the waiver period. Cases of hardship would still be entitled to be referred to, and dealt with by, the FOS."

You therefore have a clear obligation, both to identify severe hardship cases and to process them. In my case you have done neither, by using the Waiver as a smokescreen to avoid your responsibilities with unnecessary and transparent delaying tactics. This issue cannot be avoided any longer and I suggest that you appoint somebody to my case who has the ability to deal with it competently - a quality that has been singularly lacking in all of your actions to date.


You were made fully aware of my financial situation in the court case dated XXXX
I draw your attention, again, to the following facts of the claim.

1) You are already fully aware of my financial situation as I have previously completed an I&E form
2) The original charges were applied at a time when I was suffering many problems, due to a drop in income and health issues.
3) My current situation is that the charges and the resulting OD caused soley by these charges is currently causing me severe hardship

In view of all of the points above, I now require clear and concise answers to the following questions.

1. What are your criteria for judging severe hardship cases, in line with the express conditions of the FSA’s Waiver that you are obliged to uphold?
2. Do you consider that I classify as a hardship case under the conditions of the Waiver?
3. If you do not, please explain why my circumstances do not fall within your criteria for identifying severe hardship cases and the grounds upon which you have repeatedly refused to process my claim.
4. Why did you not consider my case properly outside the court system, as you are mandated to do by the conditions of the Waiver?
5. What other information do you require from me in order to assess my claim, given that you already have full evidence, yet appear to have failed to register (or understand) this competently.

I enclose again for your information a copy of the spreadsheet which calculates my charges to today’s date.

In view of your lamentable performance in dealing with the issues to date, I now require that you either deal with my claim appropriately (and swiftly), or else supply direct answers to the questions above. I do not expect further template letters or more waffling to avoid the key issues by using further delaying tactics.

In view of these time-wasting tactics I will only allow you 7 days to respond to me before taking further action on the matter. I have already referred this case to the FOS and I am sending a copy of this correspondence to them.

If you do not respond within my timescale, or you do not respond favourably, I reserve the right to take any further action relevant to this case without further reference to yourselves. I strongly suggest that this time you appoint a case worker capable of understanding the gravity of your position and the need for you to take the issues seriously, whilst that option is still available to you.

[scoobydoo]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

The above is a version of a letter worked on by Kafka

I have posted it then I will edit

As I did that before then it disappeared

[scoobydoo]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Hi bluebell

have a look at the above and see if you agree or want to add anything

And then we can go from there

[scoobydoo]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Also can you have a look at the letter we are suggesting on the travel girl thread

you may want to use some its from that as well

[Bluebell]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Wow that is a powerful letter! On first reading it sounds fantastic. Might it be a good idea to mention in some way my lack of recent written correspondence - and the telephone runaround I was sent on? I'll have another read and write again.

I can't believe I missed your post over the past couple of days - I'm so sorry for not replying! I'll have a look at travel girl's thread now too.

[scoobydoo]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Hi

Change an personalise how ever you want

I am not an expert on any of this - but I think that as no end to the waiver is in sight you just have to keep trying - the worse they can do is say no.


Whe we get a reply to those answers we can then refer them to the guidance in the banking code - which is the post from EXC on travel girls site.

The more information we get on why the banks are not dealing with these cases the more we can help others.

Have a careful think about the letter and make sure it fits in with your records and how your case has proceeded.

Also contact A&L with a similar letter to get that moving as well.

Dont get your hopes up but for the price of a couple of stamps its worth a try.

[Amethyst]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Can we enclose a copy of the updated I/E sheet with this letter too pls.

[Bluebell]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Dear Sir/Madam

Reference case number

I am sure , you are fully aware of the FSA’s Waiver hardship conditions, I quote them below because of your apparent refusal to acknowledge them in my case. The FSA made the following statement in its Waiver announcement of 27 July 2007.

"Consumers who are in very difficult financial circumstances - 'hardship cases'
Banks and building societies will have to conduct a filtering process to ensure that cases of genuine hardship are still dealt with during the waiver period. Cases of hardship would still be entitled to be referred to, and dealt with by, the FOS."

You therefore have a clear obligation, both to identify severe hardship cases and to process them. In my case you have done neither, by using the Waiver as a smokescreen to avoid your responsibilities with unnecessary and transparent delaying tactics. This issue cannot be avoided any longer and I suggest that you appoint somebody to my case who has the ability to deal with it competently - a quality that has been singularly lacking in all of your actions to date.


You were made fully aware of my financial situation in the court case dated XXXX
I draw your attention, again, to the following facts of the claim.

1) You are already fully aware of my financial situation as I have previously completed an I&E form.
2) The original charges were applied at a time when I was suffering many problems, due to a drop in income and health issues. My income status has not improved and as I am due to have a baby in June it is unlikely to change in the near future.
3) My current situation is that the charges and the resulting OD caused soley by these charges is currently causing me severe hardship
4) Despite being aware of the above and several telephone conversations I have had with your various collections departments you have recently lowered my overdraft limit by £800 rendering my account vulnerable to further charges which will push me further into debt.


In view of all of the points above, I now require clear and concise answers to the following questions.

1. What are your criteria for judging severe hardship cases, in line with the express conditions of the FSA’s Waiver that you are obliged to uphold?
2. Do you consider that I classify as a hardship case under the conditions of the Waiver?
3. If you do not, please explain why my circumstances do not fall within your criteria for identifying severe hardship cases and the grounds upon which you have repeatedly refused to process my claim.
4. Why did you not consider my case properly outside the court system, as you are mandated to do by the conditions of the Waiver?
5. What other information do you require from me in order to assess my claim, given that you already have full evidence, yet appear to have failed to register (or understand) this competently.

I enclose again for your information a copy of the spreadsheet which calculates my charges to today’s date. I also enclose an updated Income/Expenditure form to reflect changes since moving house.

In view of your lamentable performance in dealing with the issues to date, I now require that you either deal with my claim appropriately (and swiftly), or else supply direct answers to the questions above. I do not expect further template letters or more waffling to avoid the key issues by using further delaying tactics.

In view of these time-wasting tactics I will only allow you 7 days to respond to me before taking further action on the matter. I have already referred this case to the FOS and I am sending a copy of this correspondence to them.

If you do not respond within my timescale, or you do not respond favourably, I reserve the right to take any further action relevant to this case without further reference to yourselves. I strongly suggest that this time you appoint a case worker capable of understanding the gravity of your position and the need for you to take the issues seriously, whilst that option is still available to you.

-----------------------

This is what I have added so far - any comments would be greatly appreciatec!!!! I don't want to miss anything. Thanks x

[Amethyst]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

I enclose again for your information a copy of the spreadsheet which calculates my charges to today’s date. I also enclose an updated Income/Expenditure form to reflect changes since moving house following the repossession of my previous home.

not sure if you want to add about the repo in there ?

4) Despite being aware of the above and several telephone conversations I have had with your various collections departments you have recently lowered my overdraft limit by £800 rendering my account vulnerable to further charges which will push me further into debt.

You have stopped using the account haven't you? I know you've opened a new one for your benefits when they start.



Question for scoobs and EXC - Bluebells going to be writing to lloyds also asking them to write off her current debt with them of £6k odd (which £4k of is these charges) can/should we work this into this letter or deal with it entirely seperately. Once the charges are returned the debt will be £2k, which we still cannot repay and thus would be looking at lloyds trying for a CCJ and/or passing to a DCA. What do you think?

[Bluebell]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Sory I might have confused things a bit. The last house we were in was rented - we were just given notice when my landlord discovered I was preggers. Got a bit stressed when we couldn't find anywhere to move to. My OH's house was repossessed about 3 years ago - the happy part is because of that he moved in with me and that's how we ended up together.

Yes I have stopped using the account.


It would be wonderful to be able to write off the debt. Is this the only way to get the charges back at the moment? Would I be more likely to be successful if the charges money is allocated to Lloyds rather than other creditors? (that sounds a bit incoherent sorry)

[Amethyst]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

Lol....incoherents my speciality

Okay forget the repo bit. And grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr @ your landlord.

Right with the debt with lloyds they WILL refund it to the account to reduce their debt - even though it would be soooooooooooo much better to get a cheque and be able to distribute it amongst your creditors it not going to happen. Cause as it stands you haven't paid the charges (as the debts more than the charges).

I'm also thinking if we're asking to write off the debt, which I do really doubt they will agree to but is worth a shot, then hold off on the claim maybe till thats been done have the account closed THEN reclaim the charges and try not to allow them to allocate them to that debt. I'm not sure if we can do that and it sounds a bit far fetched that you get the 6k wiped and a cheque for 4k to pay off other debts lol....but cuckoo lands nice.

See what scoobs and Exc think. I'm just trying to look at the whole picture rather than the little bits seperately.


Also - what about court fees and interest if the claims now going to go back to try the banks complaints procedure again - not sure if we've covered that yet ?

[WendyB]

Re: Bluebell vs Lloyds

I think that the end result would be sort of the same anyway, whether its written off or charges paid back, either way you won't actually get any money in your hand, because if they pay back the charges they would just pay into the account which would reduce the debt , or if the whole debt was written off that would be that. I suppose at least if the whole debt was written off you wouldn't have to find any money at all to pay it back so that would be one less creditor to allocate to every month. TBH I think they would fight tooth and nail not to write off, cos then they wouldn't be able to make any more money out of you, and we all know they like to charge as much as they can get away with.

I don't know much about the hardship angle, but might butt in with a few grammatical suggestions here and there.

Keep your chin up!
Wendy x