Travel girl - Hardship claim - offer received

[travelgirl]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

morning all
heres the reply i got from sandra greene (FOS) the letter she is refering to is the one above I refer to.......................
heres her reply

Dear Mrs Miller

I refer to my most recent letter of 24 June 2008, our previous exchange of e-mails and your fax which I received today.

However, I am unsure as to whether or not you have sent this fax to me for information purposes - as it appears to be addressed to another organisation, or if you have sent it for me to respond to.

If the later, having carefully considered your latest comments contained in the fax, I still consider it unlikely that more investigation would result in a different outcome to that explained in previous correspondence.

However, if you disagree please contact us by 19 August to explain why you disagree and with any further evidence you would like to submit to support your position and your complaint will be reviewed.

If you have not responded by this date, I will assume that you are satisfied that your complaint about the charges applied to your account will remain on hold until the legal next-steps have been sorted out. You do not need to do anything else right now. We will be in touch with you when we have news to report.

Yours sincerely


Sandra Greene
Adjudicator

[bloomingflower]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Hi Travelgirl ! :tinysmile_grin_t:

Ive just been reading your thread with much interest...and would like to say that I really sympathize with your current personal situation..

I am too also making a claim under hardship with Abbey on behalf of my O/H and am now in the process of waiting to hear back from Ronan Coyle.. who is Abbey's legal rep..

Just one phone call direct to Ronan may help you considerably right now..just explain your situation and your financial difficulties you are facing to him and he will ask you to provide proof/evidence ( statements spreadsheet income, outgoings, debt letters etc...) in hard copy form which you may need to send to him by post. You will also need to include a covering letter explaining your current financial situation. You could also include that you are also aware of the new FSA updated waiver terms on hardship. After receiving all your info, he will then liaise with Abbey.

My thread is BF v Abbey which is locked in VIP.. I think I will ask to also have it placed in the normal forum.. so that if you (and others) wish to read it.. it may give you an idea where to go from here

Ronan's direct tel no 020 775 64398

email..ronan.coyle@ashurst.com

Address...

Ronan Coyle,
Abbey National House,
2 Triton Square,
Regents Park,
London,
NW1 3AN

By following the same path as me, may or may not just do the trick.. but its definitely worth a shot..you have nothing to lose.

I hope this post may be of some help

BF xx

[travelgirl]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

thankyou BF for coming in annd reading my thread tyvvm
the documents you told me about abbey already have them so they will be on file for ronan to see them as abbey told FOS that they agreed hardship case, but yet they still want to hold on so i have sent the same letter as in the thread here to
abbey, sandra greene ronan inga kirkham clare fletcher
so fingers crossed they are looking into it as i have normally heard from them by now will keep u updated thou did you read how i got on at court?
i will check and see if i put it in if not i will put it in for you and all to read
tyvvm
take care hugs
tg
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
heres how it went in court 8th jan 08
we arrived at the court about 30 minutes early booked in and sat down to wait, after about 15 minutes a very smartly dressed lady came over to us and introduced herself as Mrs. ? Newstead ( sorry I have forgotten her christian name )and said that she was representing Abbey. She then handed us three documents reffering to other case that had lost their stay applications. The first on the Human Rights argument, ( 1 case ) the second on the Overriding Objective argument ( 3 cases ) and the third Balance of Convenience/ In the Alternative ( 4 cases. (seems they all used CAG templates?) ). On these she would base he objections. At ten past two we were called to the Judges Chambers, all very informal where we introduced ourselves to the Judge, who bore a remarkable resemblance to Paul Daniels In fact I kept expecting him to sau " you are going to like this, not a lot, but you will like it" LOL ABG explained that it was her wish that I speak on her behalf and this was agreed, somewhat reluctantly by Abbey`s Council (she seemed miffed when Judge asker her if she was a barrister, so presumably the sent a fairly large gun ), any how I asked if judge minded if I read out skeleton argument as I really had not had great amount of time to prepare more arguments. He decided that they would be quicker reading it for themselves , he got through his fairly quickly, but Ms Abbey Rep was slower and making copious notes, He then asked me if I had any further to add I replied that I felt it prob. for best that if there were any questions I would endevour to answer these he agreed and queyed one or two minor points and asked Abbey if she had any and she replied this is all new and was unprepared. judge then asked me if I had any other reason why stay should be lifted in view of test case startin on monday and expected to be settled in 8 days , the way he asked the question that the only answer I could give was no without making a fool of my self. he then went into general conversation abot test case, how some arguments had already been ruled on in many cases and he would not go counter to these rulings he then cross examined Abbey re taking charges from benefits saying there was no guidance for him on this issue, abbey jumped in here and produced book of relevant legislation and quoted sections we had used ( note Steven) and stated "in my opinion these sections refer to loan sharks, unscupulious hp companies and other undesirables having access to clients funds , like pension book scam that used to go on" and banks remarked the judge to wich she made no reply. Judge then said he would not rule on this issue as case must be decided in high court by someone taking back to court specificaly to stop them taking these charges and nat as part of a claim. (was this some advice I am wondering) he then informed us that he would not lift the stay for several reason but mainly the close date of test case, and that he had been incontact with Abbey in regard to this and other cases and they had said they would appeal decision pending out come of test case so really there was no point in lifting stay other than to waste everyones time. so there we go we did not win but do not feel that we lost either, and went away both of us with the impression that had the test case not been so near then we would have won He was very symathetic to us, and at times short with Abbey rep. Oh and before I forget after he gave his ruling I asked about altering ABGs claim to which he agreed and stated that he would record this in his ruling, Abbey were not keen, saying that we could ask at later date to amend claim but he insisted no I will enter it in ruling and then ABG can just send amendment to the court to be attached to claim. I asked if another N244 application would be required and again he said no, just send polite letter to court.

So we didn`t get stay set aside, But I don`t think anyone will now with test case just around cornerWhat I think the DJ was telling us is that he is in agreement with our view on what this sections mean, but that someone has to take the banks to court for taking charges from their account on this count only and not as a part of a small claim to get charges refunded. That way a definative ruling can be made clarifying this grey area. Abbey rep was NOT impressed with a lot of his observations on this subject.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Hi TG

What you need to do now to let Ronan be aware of your claim for hardship under the recent revised waiver terms of the FSA is for you nowto write to him.

I telephoned him yesterday as I am in the same position as you. He told me to write in with an up to date income and expenditure and give an explanation of your hardship and enclose as much evidence and documentation that you have to support your claim ie letters chasing you for money, court orders, evidence of receiving benefits etc, etc. Unless you do this they will not activate your claim. There is not a standard letter, but if you read my Abbey thread you will see what Budgie wrote on mine on how to put the letter together.

If you need help Scooby, Budgie or any of the team will help you.

Good Luck.... and let us know how you get on.

xxxxxxx

[Amy]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Travelgirl, who was the letter addressed to and who exactly did you send it to?

[Budgie]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

I think TG has actually produced a letter based on the updated hardship criteria in the FSA complaints handling waiver ( Amy helped her do it and its excellent ).

But it's not clear whether she has actually sent it to Ronan.

It does appear that she has sent a copy to Sandra Greene at the FOS, by fax, who has already responded.

Really it should just have gone to Ronan, but hey ho !!!!

As Amy has already asked perhaps TG could confirm who she actually sent the letter to.

Rgds Budgie

[fuzzybrain]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

When I spoke to Abbey, it was Ronan that dealt with it and he seems to be the first port of call in respect of getting the hardship status looked if you are in court procedings (i.e. have a case that it is already stayed). If you speak to Abbey customer services yopu will get motion sickness from all the running around to different departments they will try putting you through to!!!

[scoobydoo]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Travel girl

just do the letter we suggested referring to the new terms.

send it to Ronan and then call him

Keep it simple just refer to the new clauses

send them your up to date spread sheet.

Explain your account is closed as the balance was made up of charges you could not afford to pay back and that you took a loan out to survive.

Do not confuse them with too much detail

I know you have sent all the info before - but they may not share it between themselves - so only answer the questions they ask in reply.

scooby

[Budgie]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

This thread is very confusing.

TG could you also send me a copy of your updated spreadsheet detailing the charges that, you consider, are currently outstanding. I believe that you may have already had some charges refunded to you. It would also be helpful if you could provide a little summary of what you have been repaid so far.

To know how best we can help and advice you we really need to know the exact status of your claim. It might be harmful to your claim if you are now trying to reclaim charges for which you have already been repaid.

Best Regards Budgie

[travelgirl]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

thankyou all for your replies lol
budgie the claim i am makeing isnt for the charges i am claiming now and they didnt pay all what they said they would all i got was it was a error on there part and for me to accept there apolygy in which i didnt
i sent the letter to ronan clare fletcher inga kirkham and abbey abnd sandra greene (FOS)

scooby love i carnt remember what i sent you was it charges spreadsheet or expenditure i carnt remember sorry
tyvm all
tg
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
no i m not claiming those charges that were repaid as said in above post
thankyou to all for helping me
tg

[Budgie]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Hi Travelgirl,

Thanks for your post.

I am still not clear on what you are now claiming Abbey owe you.

The best way forward is to prepare an updated version of your spreadsheet listing all the charges that you consider Abbey still have to pay back to you.

If you send this to me I will check it for you and then we will all try and help you recover this money from Abbey.

Let me know if you need my email address and I will PM it to you

Thanks Budgie

[Paule]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Travelgirl

I think a few of us are struggling to understand what exact position you are in, which hinders our helping you.

It would be great if you could post a simple list of where you are upto, with figures as well please

ie
Original Claim £2000 settled Jan 08
Only paid £1300 of this amount

New charges since Jan 08 £750

now chasing £1300 + £750

That type of thing.

This isnt aimed at you but a general guidance, Put things are simple and straight forward as you can and explain all details if possible.
Remember that we all dont know your thoughts, so what may be clear as day to you may be alien to others.
We all know other people and may have posted our issues on other forums, so rememeber we may only have access to what you have written here and not what you may have told others in PMs or posted on other forums

If you can build a timeline that is even better then we can see exact progress.

I am just as guilty of posting as I speak, as is probably everyone at some time or another.
Once you have written your post, re read it a couple of times, add some more detail maybe, space some items to break up the post.

All in all, the more specific detail you can post, the better it is for all to understand and follow.

Dont be afraid to return to your post and edit some bits, if you think of something later, or a better way of writing something.

Anyway, I think if you follows Budgies Post above, it should get us all back on track and up to date with your claim

PKea

[Angel3745]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Hiya Travelgirl been reading your posts but my kids need feeding now so I will post properly later. You can use the Human Rights Act in your claim. I have all the info somewhere including which part of the Act refers to your rights. It is a breach of the human rights act to be made to suffer hardship and have no avenue to gain a resolve. I will find it after and post it as it may help. When you think about it the Human Rights Act applies in loads of cases and usually wins.
Angel

[travelgirl]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

thankyou both for your replies however i am not good at trying to explain things this is prob why you all are confused sorry
angel tyvvm i will try and do as you have asked
MY UPDATE
GOT
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
GOT A LETTER FROM RONAN COYLE ASKING ME FOR PAPERS EG. REPROSSION COURT ORDER SENT
UPDATE FOR CLAIM SENT ONE THAT DJ XXXXX MADE ON COURT ON 8TH JAN
SENT
ALL CORESPONDENCE RELATING TO THE CLAIM WHICH I SENT TO fos AND IN ALL WHAT WAS SENT RELATING TO MY CLAIM AND COPIES OF MY BANK STATEMENTS SENT I DIDNT SEND THE ORGINALS BUT FAXED THEM TO HIM IN WHICH I EMAILED HIM so i am now waiting drs letter cab letters etc so i will now type out the scheled charges of £3117 02 with interest 8%
going to type them for you
thvm
tg

[Angel3745]

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Just dont give up Travelgirl. Im not. I will keep going till I win. Ive copied these for you which iare your civil rights. Your not allowed to copy them into a letter word for word and use them in your case but you can refer to them in your letter and maybe quote a couple of sentances. I am researching all the laws, rights, acts and codes of conduct everywhere to help my case.

The EU Charter of Fundamental Rights

Definition
Everyone whose rights and freedoms guaranteed by the law of the Union are violated has the right to an effective remedy before a tribunal in compliance with the conditions laid down in this Article.
Everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal previously established by law. Everyone shall have the possibility of being advised, defended and represented.
Legal aid shall be made available to those who lack sufficient resources insofar as such aid is necessary to ensure effective access to justice.

Legal explanations
The first paragraph is based on Article 13 of the ECHR:
"Everyone whose rights and freedoms as set forth in this Convention are violated shall have an effective remedy before a national authority notwithstanding that the violation has been committed by persons acting in an official capacity"

I think this is another one that also applies although I could be wrong.

Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union
RIGHT TO GOOD ADMINISTRATION
The setting out of the right to good administration represents the establishment of a new fundamental right. It applies to citizens, but is the only right, in this chapter, to be recognised to "every person" coming into contact with the Union's institutions and bodies.
The principle of good administration has been developed by the jurisprudence of the Court of Justice and in the rulings of the Court of First Instance, and is based on the existence of a Community governed by the rule of law. Paragraph 1 reaffirms this general right, the essential elements of which are expanded on in paragraph 2. The right to good administration arises from a concern for equal treatment, in accordance with the jurisprudence of the Court, and with the right to an effective remedy (article 47 of the Charter) as well as rights which go with it. (the right to be heard and each person's right to access to his or her file) This right is also contained in article 2 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and article 13 of the European Convention on Human Rights. The institutions' obligations arise from the provisions of the Treaties: the general obligation to give reasons for decisions, (article 253 EC) making good of damages (article 288 EC) and the possibility of communicating with the institutions of the Union in one of the languages of the Treaty. (article 21 EC) Unlike in the Treaty, in the Charter this possibility is open to every person.
The European Ombudsman instituted by the Treaty of Maastricht (articles 21 and 195 EC) is authorised to receive complaints in cases of maladministration in the activities of Community institutions and bodies. In April 2000, the Ombudsman made a recommendation containing the principles to be included in a Code of good administrative conduct applicable to the servants of institutions and bodies of the Union in their relations with the public. The Commission has added a Code of this type in annex to its internal regulations, in the context of the reform of its services and operations. The other institutions and bodies of the Union have also adopted a Code of good administrative conduct based on the Ombudsman's recommendations, or are in the process of doing so.

I hope this helps you. I am trying to find out what other rights I have for claiming back excessive charges as many have used the social security admin law as grounds for reclaiming charges but there is some doubt around its true meaning.
Good Luck.

Angel