Travel girl - Hardship claim - offer received

**scoobydoo** · 4th May 2008, 12:35:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

These letters have been sent

Quote:
Originally Posted by jansus

I think in your position I would write back (copy to FOS) something like

I refer to your letter dated XXX . This is a totally inadequate reply to my complaint and is obviously just one of your standard replies. considering you have already sent a representative to court appearance case number xxxxx dates xxxx - your letter does not even make sense.

I commenced this case and registered my concerns originally in XXXX (date) and since then you have employed solicitors XXXXX to defend your case.
Also you refer to my account and advise me not to incurr any more charges??? Very difficult to do that as you closed my account without warning in June 2007???

Dont you think you could at least check your records before just sending me this nonsensical reply???!!

the fact remains that you have been informed on several occasions that I am a hardship case - you have not adhered to the recommend banking code practice in this respect - or to the terms of the waiver with the FSA.

I had no choice but to pursue my case through the court system and since then through the FOS. The court case caused me considerable anxiety and worsened my health.

Reference the FSA and FOS not being involved until the court case is settled you are well aware this does not apply to hardship cases in which you are obliged to at least consider the cicumstances - outside the court system.

I will send this copy letter to the FOS and would expect a more personal and appropriate reply within 7 days.

(enclose details of income and expenditure if you want to and the new spread sheet - also a copy to the court for their records?)

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9th March 2008, 23:15 #434 (permalink) abroadgirl

Gold Account Customer

Join Date: May 2007
Location: lancashire
Posts: 544

Re: abroadgirl v Abbey
here is the letter i was going on about only the lil extra as i put in my post how mad i am and it to me sounds they are stalling gggrrrrrr

Quote:
Originally Posted by abroadgirl

from copmplaints dept
i refer to your complaint about unauthorised overdraft charges. we believe that your complaint concerns the levels of fairness or lawfulness of the charges if it concerns something else such as admin error please let us know.

although we believe the charges are fair clear and lawful abbey along woth other banks and building soc 6 of them by the way
has become in voled in the legal procceedings with the oft in relation to unathorised overdraft charges which we believe will resolve the legal issues regarding the faierness and legalality of your unauthourised overdraft banking charges

it would be our normal approach to resolve your complaint through our interna; complaints process as quickly as poss ( mmmmeeeer dont think so when it takes them over a month to reply and acknowledge) thats a laugh
however untill the determination of the legal issues in the abvove procceedings we have asked the fsa to suspend the normal timetable for dealing with bank charges complaints and the fsa has agreed to thid request subject to the conditions that protect your rights

given this court case we have asked both the fos and the courts not to procceed with any other case they are hearing until the test case is resolved fos has indicated that as a general proposition it will indeed not to proceed with cases which rely on the legal issues being considered in the test case
similarly you should be aware that if you choose to issue a clain in the courts the bank will immediately apply to the court for an order to stay your action untill resolution fo the banks proceedings with the oft

we note that you have raised concerns regarding your finincial situation if you have any additional info to demonstrate you are suffering financial difficulties please send it to us in the encloseed prepaid envlope quopting the above ref no this will allow us to consider your currant situation
to avoid charges in the future please insure that there is enough money in your a/c to cover d/d s and other payments made you might like to consider cdontacting our telephone banking centre on xxxxxxxxxxxx to discuss your financial arrangements and if there is anything we can do to help
(thats another laugh they closed my a/c without me telling them and this letter is not answering anything really i have to let them have my details of the new ammount wich is less than it was orginally) i dont have an a/c with them since they closed it without my knowledge june 07

if yopu are experincing fianacial difficulty you might like to consider contacting debt counciling or organasations who provide free help what a cheek isnt it arnt they

consumer credit counciling service on tel no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
CCCS - Free Debt Advice from the UK's Leading Debt Charity bloody cheeky ......
national debt help line no .......... National Debtline, for FREE CONFIDENTIAL and INDEPENDENT ADVICE call 0808 808 4000
alternativly contact cab

alternativly call our collecdtions and recoveries operations on ..............
who will be happy to talk through the options avalible to you ( i carnt belive this can you)
please note that if collections and recoveries become involed in the admin of your account it can have a detrimental affect on your credit bureau file

we are sorry that we havent been able to respond in full to your compplaint now (have they ever)
but we together with the fsa and the oft think that it is neccesary to resolve the key legal issues before we decide to respond to your complaint we can assure you that once the legal proccedings are completed we will resolve your complaint as quickly as poss and applying to test case principles if at that stage you do not agree (i dont)
with our conclusions you wil of coourse be able to refer your casde to the fos or to the courts
exactly what will happen next will depend on the courts we do not know how long the case will take we have promised to proceed as quickly as possible but inevitably given the importance of the issues being considered this may take many months
to finally resolve
we can assure uou we have registeered your complaint as of the date it was orginally received and have stored it please retain your bank records as this will make it easier for you to support your complaint on resolution of the test case
we will kee[ you updated appropraitley about the procceedings with the oft case you can check the ;atest position on our website at Abbey : Online banking, Mortgages, Savings, Current Accounts, Credit Cards, Personal Loans, Insurance & Inves
the fsa requires us to ensure that your complaint will not be adversely affected by the delay in dealing with it
customers for whom scotland is the most likely jurisdiction should be particularly aware of the following
1 you may choose to take your complaint against us to either the fos or the courts in scotland
2 your rights to refer your complaint to the fos will not be affected the fos provides a comvenient alternative to the courts and is free for consumers however as already explained you should ve aware that the fos has at our request deciced not to determine these complaints for the tome being untill the test case has been decided
3 however if you nonetheless wish to take your claim to the court in scotland you should be aware that the timinng of when you raise a claim against us may be imported as such you you may wish to seek independence advice on filing a claim now to protect your rights although you may have to pay a court fee, if you do this you should be aware thjat the bank will immediatly apply to the court to have your action on hold untill the resolution of the ganks legal procceedings with the oft
yours sincerly
richard harris
head of complaints

note not the person who fos said would be intouch with me

enc fos fact sheet
which is unorthrised overdrafts etc

so now i need to reply to this enclsing spreadsheet of the new charges which is less than the said amount
ty
abg

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11th March 2008, 15:37 #435 (permalink) abroadgirl
Gold Account Customer

Join Date: May 2007
Location: lancashire
Posts: 544

Re: abroadgirl v Abbey
hi everyone i have had too letters of acknowledgement fro the fos.......
still have to do abbey a nother letter mmm what the heck do i put n say in the next one as see below the one i sent
stone if u see this or anyone else do i send it to ronan and inga as well let them have a look ghee they might payout hahahahah
as its the complaints dept im dealing with at the mo due to fos saying mr nasen but as u have all guessed no he hasnt been intouch at all apart from the normal whos signature is on all most letters richard harris
hugs
abg

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**scoobydoo** · 4th May 2008, 12:49:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

I think the above letter is the last one sent and the last one received which is a standard reply by the looks of it. The poster has a case worker at the FOS.

My last suggestion is this .

Reference case number

I refer to your letter dated XXX

As per my previous correspondence you are aware of the waiver conditions and I am sure I do not have to repeat them again.

1) you are fully aware of my finacial situation my only income at the time of the charges was xxxxxx (list benefit types)
2) the original charges were at a time when we were suffering severe problems with a drop in income and health problems
3) You have closed my account without prior knowledge or consent.

Therefore please confirm do you consider I am a hardship case?
If not why not?
Why did you not consider my case outside the court system as requested by the Waiver.
What other information do you require from me?
What are your criteria for judging whether or not I am a hardship case?

Please do not reply again with a standard reply. As I have referred this case to the FOS I am sending a copy to them.

I enclose a copy of the spread sheet which calculates my charges to todays date and would appreciate your reply within the next 7 days.

Comments please

**Amethyst** · 4th May 2008, 12:54:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Shes done a sell and rent back house scheme to avoid repossession. Not sure if that helps.
Hubby retired early on sick. anyway thread kensington mortages/lost my home - The Consumer Forums

**Amethyst** · 4th May 2008, 13:01:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Originally posted by scoobydoo View Post

I think the above letter is the last one sent and the last one received which is a standard reply by the looks of it. The poster has a case worker at the FOS.

My last suggestion is this .

Reference case number

I refer to your letter dated XXX

As per my previous correspondence you are aware of the waiver conditions and I am sure I do not have to repeat them again.

1) you are fully aware of my finacial situation my only income at the time of the charges was xxxxxx (list benefit types)
2) the original charges were at a time when we were suffering severe problems with a drop in income and health problems
3) You have closed my account without prior knowledge or consent.

Therefore please confirm do you consider I am a hardship case?
If not why not?
Why did you not consider my case outside the court system as requested by the Waiver.
What other information do you require from me?
What are your criteria for judging whether or not I am a hardship case?

Please do not reply again with a standard reply. As I have referred this case to the FOS I am sending a copy to them.

I enclose a copy of the spread sheet which calculates my charges to todays date and would appreciate your reply within the next 7 days.

Comments please

The basis sounds good. And if they reply to the questions properly should be interesting. I think we can possibly strengthen it a little bit... do we have a copy of the spreadsheet of charges ? Not sure when her husband was retired off and think the charges since that time would be those able to fight under the waiver.

**scoobydoo** · 4th May 2008, 16:18:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

yes when she returns I will check a few more details - such as whether the account was in joint names etc. Also I wonder what happened to her benefits when they closed he account with out her knowing.

Jan

**Kafka** · 4th May 2008, 17:24:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Try this for size.
I was in kick-ass mode so it may need toning down a bit, but none of this 'please would you' stuff again - they should take this one seriously now.

Dear Sir/Madam

Reference case number

I refer to your letter dated XXX

As per my previous correspondence, you are fully aware of the FSA’s Waiver hardship conditions, although I find I am required to restate them because of your apparent refusal to acknowledge them in my case. The FSA made the following statement in its Waiver announcement of 27 July 2007.

"Consumers who are in very difficult financial circumstances - 'hardship cases'
Banks and building societies will have to conduct a filtering process to ensure that cases of genuine hardship are still dealt with during the waiver period. Cases of hardship would still be entitled to be referred to, and dealt with by, the FOS."

You therefore have a clear obligation, both to identify severe hardship cases and to process them. In my case you have done neither, by using the Waiver as a smokescreen to avoid your responsibilities with unnecessary and transparent delaying tactics. This issue cannot be avoided any longer and I suggest that you appoint somebody to my case who has the ability to deal with it competently - a quality that has been singularly lacking in all of your actions to date.

I draw your attention, again, to the following facts of the claim.

1) You are already fully aware of my financial situation, as my only income at the time of the charges was xxxxxx (list benefit types).
2) The original charges were applied at a time when both my husband and myself were suffering severe problems, due to a drop in income and health issues.
3) You have already closed my account (in June 2007) without prior knowledge or consent, so your statements about avoiding charges on the account in future are astonishing. They also demonstrate clearly your failure to study my case in adequate detail and your open contempt for the conditions of the Waiver.

In view of all of the points above, I now require clear and concise answers to the following questions.

What are your criteria for judging severe hardship cases, in line with the express conditions of the FSA’s Waiver that you are obliged to uphold?

Do you consider that I classify as a hardship case under the conditions of the Waiver?

If you do not, please explain why my circumstances do not fall within your criteria for identifying severe hardship cases and the grounds upon which you have repeatedly refused to process my claim.

Why did you not consider my case properly outside the court system, as you are mandated to do by the conditions of the Waiver?

What other information do you require from me in order to assess my claim, given that you already have full evidence, yet appear to have failed to register (or understand) this competently.

I enclose again for your information a copy of the spreadsheet which calculates my charges to today’s date.

In view of your lamentable performance in dealing with the issues to date, I now require that you either deal with my claim appropriately (and swiftly), or else supply direct answers to the questions above. I do not expect further template letters or more waffling to avoid the key issues by using further delaying tactics.

In view of these time-wasting tactics I will only allow you 7 days to respond to me before taking further action on the matter. I have already referred this case to the FOS and I am sending a copy of this correspondence to them.

If you do not respond within my timescale, or you do not respond favourably, I reserve the right to take any further action relevant to this case without further reference to yourselves. I strongly suggest that this time you appoint a case worker capable of understanding the gravity of your position and the need for you to take the issues seriously, whilst that option is still available to you.

YF

**scoobydoo** · 4th May 2008, 17:28:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Much better! She will love that. I think she is back Thurs or Fri. Cant wait for her to see that.

Jan

**Kafka** · 4th May 2008, 17:38:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

This is exactly the sort of case I wanted as a test case when we were discussing this Jan.

I think we've got them by the balls here because they can see from this that they will not get away with more rubbish. Its probably too much to hope that this will push them into dealing with the claim, but it will be great fun seeing what they come back with.

If all else fails, I think we can make a lovely press article out of this one, hopefully in time to be released for the case management conference.

**Amethyst** · 4th May 2008, 17:45:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Excellent thats a lot stronger. Good job Kaf.

**EXC** · 6th May 2008, 14:03:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

That's Good Kaf but can I suggest we re-structure this? All the elements are there but the format needs to be clearer. My old man used to tell me that that basis of an effective letter always has the same format:

1. Say what you're gonna say
2. Say it
3. Summerise what you've said

Dear Sir/Madam

Reference case number xxx

I write in response to your letter dated XXX.

I wish to - again - clarify my position, highlight your obligations relating to it and I insist that you have the courtesy to answer my questions consisely and in the numeric order that they appear.

Despite closing my account in July 2007 with neither any notification or explaination, your letter of xxxx advises me, astonishingly, on how to avoid future charges on my account in the future and clearly demonstrates the casual nature in your dealings with my case.

You also suggested I give you ''information to demonstrate you are suffering financial difficulties'', but I have already supplied you with this to no response.

Let me remind you of my position. My sole income is disability & mobility allowance which at some point in the past led to me being slightly overdrawn. Due to the expedential nature of the charges incurred - one charge triggering another - I was in a postion where much of my income was being taken in charges causing me servere financial difficulties.

My claim began in May 2007 and despite the clear rules laid down by the Financial Services Authority that complaints should be resolved within 8 weeks, my claim should have been dealt with prior to the complants handling waiver introduced at the end of July. It was not

Regardless, the waiver does not apply to cases of financial hardship as mine clearly is. Moreover, as the new banking code and waiver conditions state, the onus is on you to ''filter'' and ''identify'' cases such as mine and that you should treat them ''sympathetically'' and ''promptly''. We are now in month 12.

Could you please answer the following:

What are your criteria for judging severe hardship cases, in line with the express conditions of the FSA’s Waiver that you are obliged to uphold?
Do you consider that I classify as a hardship case under the conditions of the Waiver?
If you do not, please explain why my circumstances do not fall within your criteria for identifying severe hardship cases and the grounds upon which you have repeatedly refused to process my claim.
Why did you not consider my case properly outside the court system, as you are mandated to do by the conditions of the Waiver?
What other information do you require from me in order to assess my claim, given that you already have full evidence, yet appear to have failed to register (or understand) this competently.

In summary, my case is clearly one of genuine hardship - as my previous correspondence makes clear. You have to date ignored this. Your obligations under the Banking Code and the FSA complaints handling waiver have been routinely flouted.

I enclose again for your information a copy of the spreadsheet which calculates my charges to today’s date.

I enclose again for your information a copy of the spreadsheet which calculates my charges to today’s date.

In view of your lamentable performance in dealing with the issues to date, I now require that you either deal with my claim appropriately (and swiftly), or else supply direct answers to the questions above. I do not expect further template letters or more waffling to avoid the key issues by using further delaying tactics.

In view of these time-wasting tactics I will only allow you 7 days to respond to me before taking further action on the matter. I have already referred this case to the FOS and I am sending a copy of this correspondence to them.

If you do not respond within my timescale, or you do not respond favourably, I reserve the right to take any further action relevant to this case without further reference to yourselves. I strongly suggest that this time you appoint a case worker capable of understanding the gravity of your position and the need for you to take the issues seriously, whilst that option is still available to you.

**scoobydoo** · 16th May 2008, 20:46:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Hi travel girl

see you have found the thread! you have a lot of reading to do

Jan

**travelgirl** · 16th May 2008, 21:07:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

Hello scooby and everyone here
wow at last ive been able to get in here lol
many thanksyous to all of you so now i am going to read and reply but heres my update

recived emails from the FOS caseworker wow not to say if you read between the lines she is on the banks side i will put in what i have got lol

so now i have the same letter from shabby

apart from these lines at the start of the letter
Dear xxx xxxxxx
We are writing to you following correspondence recived from the FOS our understanding of the complaint is that you are currently experiencing financial difficulties and have raised concerns over the level of fairness and lawfulness of the charges please do not hesitate to contact us if your matter concerns something else

to enable us to carefully concider your currant finacial situation and investagate your complaint it is important for you to complete the enclosed finacial statement confirming your current finacial circumstances, if you have already completed a F/Statement supplied by a debt councilling organisation we will be happy to accept this in addition you may also wish to provide us with any other supporting evidence examples should be

. bank statements
. court papers
.solicitors statements
. any other financial information to support your claim of financial difficulties
.
in the meantime you may wish to consider contacting one of the debt counciling organisations this being including abbey etc etc

to to avoid charges in the futher it is important that you have enough money in your bank account to cover D/D's and other regular payments you make
contacting telephoneing telebanking etc to disscuss your finacial arrangements and if there is anything we can do to help in managing your account

are these stupid or what the rest of the letter cont to say the same as i have already said
abbey debt rec
charges fair etc
the smae olsd normal
then they have photocopied and enc
dealing with debt
unautherised bank charges
do they really need to send the same thing over and over i m mad who wouldnt be

i have sent a few finacial statements and hardship letter etc
have they listened no
also does a mr nansen exist?
as i still have not heard from him even though the fos said he would contact me think he s a skeleton

so now do i have to put down my details even theough the benefits hacve gone up or do i do it as to when they took charges

they closed my a/c as scobby said without me knowing but i opened post office a/c and told the dissability etc

i really cannot thank scooby enough tyvvvvvm
thyvvvvm to you all as well tysvvvvvm
i will go now and get the letters from the fos case worker for u all
take care and many thanks once again then i will read all the posts here ty
hugs
tvgl
xx

**travelgirl** · 16th May 2008, 21:10:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

thankyou to all
thankyou to scooby
thankyou to everyone who has taken the time to come in ansd post
thankyou one and all
hhugs
travelgirl
xx

**scoobydoo** · 16th May 2008, 21:13:PM

Re: Travel girl - Hardship claim

As usual it looks like a standard letter from Abbey - lets see what the FOS have said i thier last letter or email and we will go from there

Still dont see why you should send details again if you have already done that.

Travel girl - Hardship claim - offer received

Travel girl - Hardship claim - offer received

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