• Welcome to the LegalBeagles Consumer and Legal Forum.
    Please Register to get the most out of the forum. Registration is free and only needs a username and email address.
    REGISTER
    Please do not post your full name, reference numbers or any identifiable details on the forum.

First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

Collapse
Loading...
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

    Under common law you have a right of appropriation over your own money and money you pay to another.

    If a bank informs you it will be taking money from your account to pay itself, for any reason, charges, offset of another account/loan, or just to be swallowed up by an unauthorised overdraft and you can't afford for them to take the money, then you MAY be able to use the Right of Appropriation to stop them taking the money temporarily.

    You should take this letter to the bank at least 7 days before the payment is due in / they are due to take the money. If you are up to it, then take the letter in and ask to see someone and insist on it being actioned there and then. If you post letters they will often go to central processing centres and not be dealt with for days, by which time it is too late.

    You need to tell the bank what date and the amount of the payment due in to the account, and the dates and amounts of payments that are essential to be paid.

    The most common use of this right is to rescue your Housing Benefit/Local Housing Allowance from bank charges and enable it to still reach your landlord.

    Your rights do not extend solely to benefits - and you may use this for ANY payments into an account which NEED to be used for a specific purpose.


    If the payment you are needing to appropriate is something regular we would recommend that you open a basic account at a different bank and use that solely for the incoming funds and outgoing payments. For example, Housing Benefit/Local Housing Allowance - this should help stop any problems arising in the future.


    [your name ]
    [your address]


    [date]


    [bank name ]
    [bank address]




    Dear Sir/Madam,

    RIGHT OF APPROPRIATION
    ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

    I am writing to inform you that I am due to have a Benefit / Salary / tax credit payment of £xxx paid into my account on xx/xx/xx, and I wish to use my first right of appropriation for this money, for the following purposes;

    Rent - Company/Landlord name/reference - due to be collected by Direct Debit on xx/xx/xxxx - £xx

    Please ensure this payment is made.

    I also need to appropriate the sum of £xxx for essential housekeeping and will withdraw this sum over the counter/by ATM on xx/xx/xxxx.

    Please ensure this sum is available to me at that time and that any other payments out of my account or charges applied to my account do not interfere with this withdrawal.

    If you have any doubt over my rights please contact your legal team.


    Yours faithfully,


    [signature]

    Banks deal differently with this, and we are communicating with them to try and encourage front line counter staff training and awareness of the right. One building society alledges that their terms and conditions make the common law principle irrelevant - something which we do not agree with.

    Using your right of appropriation will quite often be a signal to the bank that you are struggling financially, which can lead to removal of facilities and downgrading of accounts to basic. They should not do this without discussion and notification first. They are, in essence, quite right and needing to appropriate your income in this way can be a sign of impending difficulties.

    First thing we would recommend people do who find themselves in this position is to complete an income and expenditure form - there is a simple one here Legal Beagles which you can use. If you would like some help and support then please post it on the forum or email it to admin@legalbeagles.info if you would prefer it to stay confidential for the time being.

    We understand how difficult it can be discussing your finances, especially on a public forum - remember you are completely anonymous on here, and no one will judge you, as we have all been there in one way or another and are working on our own finances.
    #staysafestayhome

    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

  • #2
    Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

    Hi, I have read the above post, but would still like to ask a question.
    My son and his girlfriend along with their 4 yrs old live together. They are currently claiming Job Seekers, Housing Benefit and Council Tax relief (all these benefits are paid into ms x Halifax account).
    A few weeks ago ms x told me that she had received a letter from the Halifax telling her she had an unauthorised overdraft and had to pay £35 (I think?) in charges.
    ms x went into the Halifax to enquire how this had happened. It was soon made clear...
    ms x had been out one day, gone to the ATM to check her account seen she had funds available. She then went to Aldi shopping and paid with her card. Next day she checked the ATM again and there was still funds available, she withdrew £10. What she didn't know was that it took two days for Aldi to take their payment!
    ms x did ask the Halifax if there was anything they could do about the charges....they said NO.
    These poor kids live on so little as it is, is there anything they can do to stop the charges?
    Last edited by Soulstar; 11th December 2009, 01:59:AM. Reason: to add more information
    Positivity breeds Positivity. Negativity breeds Negativity ;-)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

      If they havent had a charge for a long time then she needs to contact the bank about her circumstances and plead to their (well hidden) better nature to refund the charge. Obviously she has already tried this to no avail (showing just how compassionate the banks are).

      Have they taken the charge already or has it been pre notified to her ?

      If they have taken it already (pushing her further to overdraft incurring more charges?) then she needs to write and complain outlining her circumstances and quoting financial hardship guidance from both the lending code and BCOBS.

      If it is prenotified and they have yet to take it then she can try using the First Right of Appropriation, as above, the banks are notoriously rubbish at actually allowing people to use this and its usually a battle, and she should still do the complaint in writing to the bank.

      Debit card transactions often catch people out where stores save them up for a couple days before putting them through, and the banks make a killing in charges by allowing them to do so....best thing for future is to use cash.

      I do feel for her, I know how hard it is to survive on benefits and how massive an impact losing such a large proportion of it in bank charges can have.

      xxx
      #staysafestayhome

      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

      Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

        Hi Amethyst, I will check with her later today if they have already taken the charge.
        If not I will most likely have to go to the Halifax with her, as neither of them will challenge authority bless them.
        If it has gone out I will write a letter and get her to hand deliver it.
        I have already told her it's best to use cash in future then no mistakes can be made ;-)
        Thanks for your help and the quick response
        Positivity breeds Positivity. Negativity breeds Negativity ;-)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

          Just in case you may have missed it, here's an example of how 'compassionate' banks can be:-

          BBC - Watchdog - HSBC bank charges on Watchdog

          cnjw
          CAVEAT LECTOR

          This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

          You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
          Cohen, Herb


          There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
          gets his brain a-going.
          Phelps, C. C.


          "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
          The last words of John Sedgwick

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

            I tried this but natwest pretty much said tuff, they can do what they want, and have been leaving me short for months now, not good

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

              Hiya, have you taken action to stop the charges increasing ? Cancelling DDs, having your income paid in to an alternative account and negotiating with the bank to stop charges and allow a reasonable repayment.

              Need a bit more info on the circumstances involved to be able to help and see whether FROA is appropriate.
              #staysafestayhome

              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

              Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

                [quote=Amethyst;115792]



                One building society alledges that their terms and conditions make the common law principle irrelevant - something which we do not agree with.

                quote]

                I realise this post was a long time ago and haven't read the full thread, but I am very heavily into rights under common law at the moment. There is no way a bank can be above the law through their terms and conditions. All flesh and blood human beings have authority over legal fictions, which includes all corporations and thus banks!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

                  for reference http://www.bdac.org.uk/wp-content/up...ropriation.pdf
                  #staysafestayhome

                  Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                  Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

                    I too am having a fight with my bank over charges being taken from the account where benefits are paid (Inc Sup,DLA, Housing). I sent my local branch a 'First Right' letter but that was totallt ignored, according to BCOBS, they even breached some of thoe terms (communications - writing to confirm receipt of letters) as I did even ask them to acknowledge receipt of it. So I sent them another one, this time to he Head Office, Recorded Delivery, still ignored with no acknowlegement.

                    After a lot more hassle of trying to change a single acc into a joint one (another story) I decided to send the CEO an email. This was deleted, unread. So I sent another one and this time it was passed onto one of the CEO's 'oiks'
                    I have since been communicating with him and even sent his a letter quoting 'Social Security Administration Act 1992'
                    187.—(1) Subject to the provision of this Act, every assignment of or charge on–
                    (a) benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;
                    1
                    [ (aa) a jobseeker’s allowance;]
                    [2(ab) state pension credit;]
                    [3(ac) an employment and support allowance;]
                    (b) any income-related benefit; or
                    (c) child benefit,
                    and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the
                    bankruptcy of a beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person
                    acting on behalf of his creditors.

                    All I got back was
                    'The purpose of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 , Section 187 is to prevent peoples benefit money being at risk by it being assigned over to a third partyin settlement of a debt. It is not intended to prohibit the aplication of bank charges. Bank charges are in the nature of an expense and are incurred by the holder of the account.Benefits are payable in order to help customers meet their expenses and as such it is legitimate for banks to deduct charges from an account held at that bank,whether the money was paid into the account such as benefits or other sources such as earnings.'

                    So, I've taken it to the FOS. and I'm just waiting for them to get back to me now....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

                      You have got NO CHANCE with the SSAA 1992 as charges relate to be taken to court for debt. However I think if you had mentioned Treating customer fairly, The lending code section 9 and financial hardship they would have acted differently. FOS won't help you if you are merely using SSAA 1992. (apologies but am off to work but will be back later this afternoon to respond further to this).
                      "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
                      (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

                        Oh, that remided me also, I wrote Santander an email as I saw I would be in deep doo-doo if a Direct Debit would have been taken out (rent) it would have put us £500 O/D. I said if charges were to be applied, it would be 6 months until we were straightened out, it charges were to be applied, we would never get sorted. He replied back, well - tough as youve already had £125 charges refunded already and I can't help you further (I will dig the letter out later so I can put up the exact wording).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

                          Originally posted by pooky2483 View Post
                          Oh, that remided me also, I wrote Santander an email as I saw I would be in deep doo-doo if a Direct Debit would have been taken out (rent) it would have put us £500 O/D. I said if charges were to be applied, it would be 6 months until we were straightened out, it charges were to be applied, we would never get sorted. He replied back, well - tough as youve already had £125 charges refunded already and I can't help you further (I will dig the letter out later so I can put up the exact wording).
                          Did you request that they cancel the payment? If you did then it may fall under Payment Services Regulations if the cancellation was prior to the payment going out....


                          EDIT ON POST with additional comment: I would have emailed back and reminded him of their obligations with regards to treating customers fairly and sympathetically if they went into financial hardship and RENT is a priority debt so that would have been an issue whether they had given you a refund or given you a performance of Les Miserables!!
                          "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
                          (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

                            No, I did'nt know I'd gone OD.

                            As for emailing them back, he would have probably said, we have been fair to you in the past (re the £125 refund). But that just don't cut it. I've emailed FOS some more info regarding the possibility I may have become seriously overdrawn and incurred charges from the letting agents too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: First Right of Appropriation - stop the bank taking your money

                              Originally posted by pooky2483 View Post
                              No, I did'nt know I'd gone OD.

                              As for emailing them back, he would have probably said, we have been fair to you in the past (re the £125 refund). But that just don't cut it. I've emailed FOS some more info regarding the possibility I may have become seriously overdrawn and incurred charges from the letting agents too.

                              The past goodwill payment is absolutely irrelevant because that may have been in the past but by returning a rent payment then that is a priority debt and could be considered an indicator of financial hardship if other payments are returned as a result ie gas/electricity, etc etc...

                              the Social Security Administration Act 1992 offers you nil protection against bank charges.

                              The PSR's do not offer you a route either as the payment was not cancelled prior to it going out. I thought in the original email the issue of the £500 rent was made clear to Santander PRIOR to it going out rather than AFTER it was bounced. If it is PRIOR to it being returned we might have a case under PSR.
                              "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
                              (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

                              Comment

                              View our Terms and Conditions

                              LegalBeagles Group uses cookies to enhance your browsing experience and to create a secure and effective website. By using this website, you are consenting to such use.To find out more and learn how to manage cookies please read our Cookie and Privacy Policy.

                              If you would like to opt in, or out, of receiving news and marketing from LegalBeagles Group Ltd you can amend your settings at any time here.


                              If you would like to cancel your registration please Contact Us. We will delete your user details on request, however, any previously posted user content will remain on the site with your username removed and 'Guest' inserted.
                              Working...
                              X