Hardship claim for charges (inc business)

[piesky]

Re: Hardship claim for charges

Thanks very much for your help and advice. Yes they are good offers all things considered and they will certainly go some way in helping in these extremely difficult economic times. My next challenge is getting back charges on the business accounts. Don't know if this will be quite as easy but I am informed the current waiver has no bearing on these.

My main problem with the Business accounts is a few missing statements (not more than twenty going back to 2000) but I'm sure there were numerous charges on these as well.

Piesky

[Amethyst]

Re: Hardship claim for charges

Business accounts are difficult at the moment since the penalty argument was chucked out at high court, the banks are claiming a read over to business accounts, and I have to say I tend to agree....however if they are with Natwest I believe they are still making offers on letters so its worth a shot - I would be inclined to get a claim in (by letter) sooner rather than later (ie estimate the missing statement charges - just average the other months) though before the Barclays Salford case gets bandied about too much.....claimant lost and got costs against because of the read across from the personal accounts judgment in the test case.....so I couldnt recommend going to court with it at all.

[piesky]

Re: Hardship claim for charges

Yes I did hear something about that. Was it not due in part to the current terms, etc, rather than historic terms where charges go back before a certain date?
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Here is what is being written in This is Money:

Reclaim business account bank charges

This is Money
Updated 19 May 2008 / Created February 2007
Reader comments (1)

Banks have been accused of ripping off customers with high charges. This is Money presents ten steps to reclaiming unfair business account bank charges

Business bank account charges stalled
It will become increasingly difficult for bank account holders to proceed with claims following the April 24 bank charges judgement in the High Court.
Although the judge at the centre of the case ruled that the excessive penalties levied on personal account holders by eight High Street banks could be assessed for fairness by the Office of Fair Trading – he cast business account customers out in the cold.
He said in the small print of his conclusion into the case that he accepted the banks' argument against the part of the case used to reclaim business account overdraft charges: namely, that they are not penalties and can be enforced.
However as he referred to the terms and conditions in question as 'the terms now generally used by the banks', he could merely be referring to present terms and conditions and not to historic terms used on accounts before banks began to amend them over the past 18 months.
This has led some campaigners to conclude that cases that go back over 18 months may still be considered.
It's all a bit of a grey area at the moment, so it is best practice to try to proceed regardless if you are reclaiming several years worth of charges. A definitive conclusion on business charges may emerge as the High Court case draws to a close.
Keep a close eye on proceeding here on This is Money at www.thisismoney.co.uk/reclaimbankcharges.
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Three of our four bank accounts are now closed and have been for over two years. The one remaining open and used has charges going back to 2000.

[jax007]

Re: Hardship claim for charges

Amethyst ... sorry just hijacking this thread for a mo hun as it's relevant.

I note you are saying it might be worth proceeding with Nat West business accounts (you will remember SiL has a T/A account) but not to go so far as court - that's if I have read it correctly.

What are your views if above is correct on what to do once you have issued 2 LBAs? Should you accept whatever they offer, if anything?

BTW - I am assuming T/A accounts are not classed as personal accounts as previously suggested?

Sorry Piesky - hope you don't mind

jaxx

[piesky]

Re: Hardship claim for charges

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No not all Jax. In my opinion, many businesses actually go under as a result of unfair and excessive bank charges and this must stop if this country is ever to recover from the current state.

[piesky]

Re: Hardship claim for charges

Amethyst, Could you keep me informed and updated on the Barclays Salford case as there is not much info available on it? I would like to make sure that all my letters contain the up to date a relevant case law, legal arguments, correct wording, etc, etc, in order to prevent a similar situation occurring Please either PM or email me direct if necessary. I do understand the nature of this. Thanks

Piesky

[Amethyst]

Re: Hardship claim for charges

Legal Beagles Should be there hun x

[piesky]

Re: Hardship claim for charges

Hi all,

A quick update on things and a couple of questions if I may.

Charges for both mine and my OH accounts have now been returned and received. Do we need to start a court claim for the remainder of the charges and interest that has not been paid?

As far as the four business accounts are concerned, we have been offered a vastly reduced amount on each of these as a gesture of goodwill and in full and final settlement of our claims - no interest at all. full claims were for £50,000 and we have been offered £6500.

Any further suggestions as to how to proceed on these?

Many thanks

Piesky

[Amethyst]

Re: Hardship claim for charges

okay - does the amount offered cover the charges incurred on the accounts its offered against ?

Can you break down the claims/amounts etc

also what portion of the charges are 2001-2003

You'll have read I hope the Salford business account claim information, and if you have a look at the charges part of askl's thread has some info on too.

the £50k is including the compounded interest isn't it.

[Amethyst]

Re: Hardship claim for charges

Charges for both mine and my OH accounts have now been returned and received. Do we need to start a court claim for the remainder of the charges and interest that has not been paid?

is that your personal accounts, what did you get back against which claims?

[piesky]

Re: Hardship claim for charges (inc business)

Hi Amethyst,

To answer both of your questions, the amount offered on the business accounts is a fraction of the charges actually levied - and the offer is in full and final settlement. As far as the amounts repaid so far, this is on our personal accounts and repaid under hardship - again, only a percentage of mine returned with no interest and most of my OH's but also with no interest. These were made as a gesture of goodwill.
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a large portion of these charges were levied between 2001 and 2003. The 50k does include compound interest.

[Amethyst]

Re: Hardship claim for charges (inc business)

okay - the situation is you need to get out the natwest 2001 - 2003 terms for the business accounts and the 2001 - 2003 personal current account terms as per the judgement in high court and compare them, if they are materially the same you may still have a case they can be penalties.

Same with the rest but hoping they are materially different.

Work out how much the charges for 01-03 are (not sure which months things came into and out of force) then work your compound interest on those, see what the figure is and how that compares to the offer.

Thats likely to be what you'd be awarded in court as things stand.

OR you turn it down, ask them to hold/stay it till after the test case - its unlikely but possible I guess that Lord Phillips could be looking at the penalty arguments again (he bought it up a bit but we wont know truely to what extent till we get transcripts and I dont even know if he CAN rejudge on it as it wasnt appealed from high court)

Or you accept as partial and ask to stay the rest pending test case, and argue as there is a big read over and the appeals arent over it could impact your case.

Or turn it down all together and hope for a bigger offer - I havent seen a current natwest business charges defence yet but you could look at askls one as that has a charge element.

Anything other than accepting straight out (which of course if its a very low offer in relation to the charges/interest you don't want to do) carrys with it a risk of coming out with nothing.

I'm not saying to accept or decline tho - you have to look at the materials and assess any risk. Costs in the barclays business claims havent been that huge, so if its worth risking say £1k costs against winning £50k etc etc