Lloydstsb bank charges. Reclaim

[Bruja]

My current situation relates to a cheque for £4000 which was referred in December 2006 this is despite the fact that I was told by two separate personnel from Lloyds TSB that the cheaque had actually cleared.
My overdraft was increased to £7000. Since that time I have been in the cycle of debt struggling to repay this overdraft. I have requested my statements dating back to December 2006. Having review charges f from January 2007 to present I have calculated that I have paid over £ £12,685.40 in bank charges which includes the interest the court would have awarded.
My situation is worse now than in 2006 as my income has dropped due to taking on the care of my son who has a disability I am also frequently over my overdraft limits. Looking at my bank statements I have calculated that generally I incur approximately £1300 bank charges per year which have hurt my situation and effected my credit file

I have try to reduce my overdraft then it creeps back up again due to charges. It is now some 11 years on and I am practically in the same situation as I was from the start.
Lloyds Bank response in March 2017 was that they refused my request based on (see below)

. What you're complaining about happened more than six years ago, and
. You're complaining more than three years after you realised (or should have realised) that

I have this morning received a letter from MOORCRAFT who have stated that the debt has now been passed to them I am not sure what my next move should been.
The ombudsman due to the length of time will not consider this case. Is my only opinion now the courts HELP NEEDED PLEASE

[leclerc]

Re: Lloydstsb bank charges. Reclaim

I've flagged this with site team because I think there are a number of things here.

We need more information on that cheque issue firstly.
A drop in income might indicate financial hardship so have you missed any payments for rent/mortgage, utilities, council tax?
Am not sure that passing the debt onto moorcroft without doing the due diligence is particularly good for Lloyds to be doing

[Bruja]

Re: Lloydstsb bank charges. Reclaim

Hello

Thank you for such a quick response.

The cheque was from a tenant of ours for rent and rent arrears. He had issued us with cheques that had bonuced before this is why i ask on 2 separate occasion if the chequed had cleared before withdrawing to pay mortgage.

Have missed payment to for utility and council tax.

I really do not want to deal with debt collectors

[des8]

Re: Lloydstsb bank charges. Reclaim

A couple of years ago we helped a lady on here with a similar problem.
The case centred on the banks T&Cs concerning cheque clearance and "Certainty of Fate" doctrine.

To see if you have a case we would need to have an exact timeline of the cheque being deposited and you eventually being told that it had been returned unpaid.

There is a difficulty with the Limitation act limit of 6 years in which to bring a claim.
When did you start to complain about the banks action?
How did you complain..verbally or in writing?

Further, deliberate concealment of a fact relevant to your right of action postponesthe start of the limitation period [ Limitation Act 1980 s.32(2).]
So can you think of any way in which the bank have hidden from you your right to sue them?
For example did they mislead you about any action you could take?


You have a hurdle to overcome just to get this into court so any detailsyou can supply may be of assistance.

[Bruja]

Re: Lloydstsb bank charges. Reclaim

Thank you for your help

On the morning of 28th December 2006 I paid a TSB cheque into my account for £4,000/ From past experiences I knew because the cheque given was also a TSB that if funds were available the cheque would clear overnight allowing me to withdraw the next day.
I checked my account via the internet on the morning of 29th December and I could see that the cheque had actually clear.
I went along to the branch checked with both the receptionist and the cashier that it was okay for me to make cash withdrawal of £4,000 both stated that I would make the withdrawal as I had cleared funds.
When I checked my account on 5^th January I was shocked to see that the cheque had been referred making my account exceed my overdraft limit.
I contact the bank that same day and was told that I would need to pursue the person that wrote the cheque.
I made a written complaint on 18^th January 2007 and was told basically the same thing. But as a gesture of goodwill my overdraft would be increased to cover the cheque.

[des8]

Re: Lloydstsb bank charges. Reclaim

Slightly different scenario to other cases as the cheque was drawn on the same bank as the payee bank, and so clearance takes place on the same day.

Where two different banks are involved cheque clearance is regulated by rules of Cheque and credit Clearing Company.
They state that when the point of certainty of clearance has been reached " the money cannot be reclaimed without
their [the customer's] consent unless they are a knowing party to fraud"
I cannot understand why Lloyd's did not honour this rule as their current T&Cs show available funds would not include uncleared funds:
"available funds This is • the amount of any credit balance on your account; plus • the unused amount of any Planned Overdraft; less • any funds showing in your account that are not yet available for use (like recent cheque deposits) and any payments we have authorised but not yet taken from your account."

Seeing that it was TSB who recalled the cheque (and at that time they were part of the Lloyds group) I wonder why the cheque was cleared and then recalled.

And how generous of them to increase your overdraft to take into account their obvious error..... and obviously charged you for the privilege.


You might be able to dispute their statement that the matter is time barred, as they deliberately misled you by stating that you should pursue the drawer of the cheque.
As they had cleared the cheque (and this was confirmed by the tellers) they had no right to remove those funds without your consent and it was against the bank that your legal redress lay.
Why do they state: ". You're complaining more than three years after you realised (or should have realised) that"
I assume there is a certain amount of correspondence which you haven't mentioned in this thread.

Have you kept the written records?
If you were to initiate court proceedings I would suggest you keep your claim below £10,000, so in the event you lost you would not be hit with a huge costs bill
You will be up against their legal department, and if it reaches court they might even use a barrister, although it will be on the small claims track.
On the other hand, just defending the case will cost the bank, so they might negotiate a settlement with you rather than go to court!

Here's a link to a rather long thread where the lady was eventually successful http://legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?63723-Can-the-bank-%91UNCLEAR%92-cleared-funds&highlight=coop+bank

[Bruja]

Re: Lloydstsb bank charges. Reclaim

Hello Des8

Thank you once again for your comments you have been extremely helpful

I feel i have very little alternative but to pursue thought the courts but at a last ditch attempt I will write again to the bank.

i wonder if there is anyone out there on legalbeagles that could help with drafting a final letter or may have a temple plate letter that i could send to the bank as a letter before action.

Thanks

[des8]

Re: Lloydstsb bank charges. Reclaim

You won't find a template letter for your circumstances.

You should head your letter"Letter before Action"
Give them their reference numbers.and account no.
State briefly that you deposited a cheque on DD/MM/YY for £4,000
ON DD/MM/YY your on line account detail showed the amount as cleared.
On the same date two staff members confirmed the funds were cleared.
Accordingly you withdrew the funds on DD?MM?YY.

On DD/MM/YY you noted the deposit had been reversed on DD/MM/YY.

On querying this I was deliberately misled by the bank by letter dated DD/MM/YY.
In that letter I was instructed that I had to pursue the original cheque drawer.
I have now discovered this was completely false, and in fact the bank had no authority to remove cleared funds from my account without my consent.

The bank covered the amount by granting me an overdraft.
This has meant I have paid interest and charges amounting to thousands of pounds because of the banks error and deliberate misinformation.

Accordingly I propose to initiate court proceedings to recover my losses.
To avoid this I am prepared to accept mediation or some other appropriate form of medation.

However if I do not receive a satisfactory response from you within 14 days I will initiate court proceedings without further reference to yourselves.

Yours FFlly

[des8]

Re: Lloydstsb bank charges. Reclaim

@Bruja has pm'd me to say that Lloyds response was "we have dealt with the matter... end of!"

So he has requested help with the claim, which he wants to proceed with.
My suggestions:

BRIEF DETAILS OF CLAIM
This is a claim for the return of cleared funds removed without consent from the CLAIMANT'S Bank account by the DEFENDANT and/or the return of charges and interest on the resulting overdraft imposed by the DEFENDANT

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

1) at all material time the DEFENDANT was LLOYDS BANK LTD (use full correct name)
2) on dd/mm/yy (or thereabouts) (the date you opened your accountwith them) the CLAIMANT..NAME.... entered a contract for the supply of banking services from the DEFENDANT
3) It is an implied term of the contract that the DEFENDANT would exercise the care and skill of a competent banker. Further or alternatively the DEFENDANT owed a like duty at Common Law.
4)On dd/mm/yy the CLAIMANT deposited in his account a cheque numbered XXXXX for £4000 drawn on an account (number if known) held by Trustee Savings Bank Ltd (part of the DEFENDANTS group)
5)On dd/mm/yy the CLAIMANT checked his account and saw the funds were available for use.
6) On dd/yy/mm two of the DEFENDANT'S employees confirmed the funds were cleared and available.
7)On dd/yy/mm the CLAIMANT withdrew the funds from his account
8)On 05/01/2007 the CLAIMANT noted that his account showed the deposited cheque had been returned to the drawer and the CLAIMANT'S account debited with £4000, resulting in the CLAIMANT'S overdraft limit being exceeded
9)On 05/01/2007 in response to the CLAIMANT seeking advice the DEFENDANT advised the CLAIMANT to pursue the cheque drawer
10) On dd/mm/yy the DEFENDANT wrote in response to the CLAIMANT'S written complaint of 05/01/2007 that the CLAIMANT should pursue the drawer of the cheque, but that they, the DEFENDANT, would increase the CLAIMANT'S overdraft limit to cover the removal of the funds marked as cleared.
11) This error by the DEFENDANT has caused the CLAIMANT loss of the cleared funds which were removed without consent, and the cost of the increased overdraft over many years, to the wrongful benefit and profit of the DEFENDANT
12) The Defendant failed to execrcise the care and skill of a competent banker by either prematurely advising the cheque was cleared or by clearing it in error and then reversing the entry
13)Alternatively the DEFENDANT breached the contract by removing without authority cleared funds from the CLAIMANT'S account and so increasing the DEFENDANTS overdraft
14) The CLAIMANT asserts this claim is not time barred under the Limitation Act 1980(as per Sec 32 (1)(b)) as the DEFENDANT deliberately misled the CLAIMANT by letter dated dd/mm/yy.



I would still caution about proceeding with this claim, because of the Limitation Act.
Anyone else like to comment?