Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

[Artan]

Hi
I have filed a defence stating claimant has not proved the debt is mine despite my requests for disclosure. Also that no proper letter before claim has been served. Claimant solicitors who issued the claim stayed the claim after i filed the defence but have now shown copies of my bank statements showing that i borrowed money from a payday company in 2012 which withdrew the money from my bank account - i had no money in my account or overdraft agreement.
Please advise whether a copy of a bank statement is sufficient proof that i owe the debt as i have asked claimants for full disclosure, signed credit agreements etc? Could i also claim costs from the claimant or his solicitors for corresponding with them, perusing papers, checking the law etc as they only produced the bank statement after they started the claim in court and after i filed the defence despite my written requests for disclosure in the last 3 years?
Please also advise of anything else that i may not be aware.

Many thanks

[Artan]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

A clarification about my post above: the bank statement doesnt show that i borrowed money from the payday company but only that payday company withdrew money from my account which caused the account to be overdrawn by £1200.
Claimants solicitors say now that my defence will not succeed and will apply to lift the stay.
Thanks again.

[nemesis45]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

Hi
I have filed a defence stating claimant has not proved the debt is mine despite my requests for disclosure. Also that no proper letter before claim has been served. Claimant solicitors who issued the claim stayed the claim after i filed the defence but have now shown copies of my bank statements showing that i borrowed money from a payday company in 2012 which withdrew the money from my bank account - i had no money in my account or overdraft agreement.
Please advise whether a copy of a bank statement is sufficient proof that i owe the debt as i have asked claimants for full disclosure, signed credit agreements etc? Could i also claim costs from the claimant or his solicitors for corresponding with them, perusing papers, checking the law etc as they only produced the bank statement after they started the claim in court and after i filed the defence despite my written requests for disclosure in the last 3 years?
Please also advise of anything else that i may not be aware.

Many thanks

Good afternoon, welcome to LB.

Have you made a formal request for a copy of the credit agreement together with the £1.00 statutory fee and sent to the claimant? ( who is the claimant?)

Please layout the time scale and actions taken by yourself and the claimant

e.g. when was the loan taken out?
How much was borrowed?
When was the loan defaulted?
What was your defence?
When was the claim issued?

A bank statement is not a credit agreement.
nem

[Artan]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

Thanks nemesis.
The claimant is arrow global but the original creditor is my bank- product type overdraft. My bank sold the debt or overdraft to different debt collectors n lastly arrow global instructed restons. I havent aknowledged this debt and i have asked for credit agreement but as i said in my first post i have only been provided with a copy of my bank st for that period and a final demand copy letter (its more like a banks internal doc rather than a proper letter). I havent paid any £1 stat. fee but have asked in writting for disclosure. This debt dates back in 2012. I have written a few times to debt collectors for disclosure but havent been provided with any docs apart from letters demanding payment. In nov 16 restons filed a claim in court having previously written to me simply demanding payment and threatening court action. I filed a defence and solicitors stayed the claim and finally provided copies of my bank st asking me to withdraw my defence by end of last year. I have checked the money claim online portal but no actions have been taken by claimant to date so stay hasnt been lifted yet.
The said loan was taken in 2012 and as payday loans go must have been due in a month or two.
Thanks again

[nemesis45]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

Thanks nemesis.
The claimant is arrow global but the original creditor is my bank- product type overdraft. My bank sold the debt or overdraft to different debt collectors n lastly arrow global instructed restons. I havent aknowledged this debt and i have asked for credit agreement but as i said in my first post i have only been provided with a copy of my bank st for that period and a final demand copy letter (its more like a banks internal doc rather than a proper letter). I havent paid any £1 stat. fee but have asked in writting for disclosure. This debt dates back in 2012. I have written a few times to debt collectors for disclosure but havent been provided with any docs apart from letters demanding payment. In nov 16 restons filed a claim in court having previously written to me simply demanding payment and threatening court action. I filed a defence and solicitors stayed the claim and finally provided copies of my bank st asking me to withdraw my defence by end of last year. I have checked the money claim online portal but no actions have been taken by claimant to date so stay hasnt been lifted yet.
The said loan was taken in 2012 and as payday loans go must have been due in a month or two.
Thanks again

It's my opinion Artan that statements alone are insufficient to enforce the debt, if this was an authorised OD there should be a written conformation of the terms and conditions applicable to it .

nem

[sloane82]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

Hi can you put information of the debt and letters that have been sent via the claim, also get an subject access request for all evidence, seems a bit odd what made you get the loan, and as you are in financial difficulty you can only pay £1 by law.

[Diana M]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

as you are in financial difficulty you can only pay £1 by law.

What "law" would that be?

I can't think of any.

Di

[nemesis45]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

Hi can you put information of the debt and letters that have been sent via the claim, also get an subject access request for all evidence, seems a bit odd what made you get the loan, and as you are in financial difficulty you can only pay £1 by law.

That's not law, you may find a creditor/DCA/Debt purchaser willing to accept nominal payments for a period, but there is nothing to compel them to do so.


nem

[Diana M]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

The claimant is arrow global but the original creditor is my bank- product type overdraft. My bank sold the debt or overdraft to different debt collectors n lastly arrow global instructed restons. I havent aknowledged this debt and i have asked for credit agreement but as i said in my first post i have only been provided with a copy of my bank st for that period and a final demand copy letter (its more like a banks internal doc rather than a proper letter). I havent paid any £1 stat. fee but have asked in writting for disclosure. This debt dates back in 2012.

. . . . The said loan was taken in 2012 and as payday loans go must have been due in a month or two.

Can you post up the Particulars of Claim with personal or identifiable details removed.

You may be muddling the PDL issue with the bank overdraft issue.

If the claim is for a bank overdraft then the Claimant (Arrow) has to prove that you owe them the debt and that they have the legal right to collect it (NOA).

They also have to prove that the original creditor (the bank) had an agreement to grant you an overdraft (or was this an unauthorised OD caused by withdrawals/interest/charges etc.?) So far you've been sent bank statements and what appears to be a recon of the Final Demand before the account was terminated and sold to Arrow. Was there a DN?

Sadly this claim probably has nothing to do with the PDL business who is not party to these proceedings. Their conduct is not an issue although you may wish to make a formal complaint to them (PDL company) and then FOS if they got something wrong.

What was the basis of your Defence?

Di

[Artan]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

Thanks Di
PoC say that C claims payment of the overdue balance due from D under a contract between D and the bank dated on or about oct 29 2010 and assigned to the C on Apr 29 2014.
Particulars a/c no *********
Date 10 sep 16( however claim issue date is in oct 16)
Item: default balance
Value £ 1200

I dont think i have received a NOA (notice of assignment ? )
This seems to be an unauthorised OD
I dont think i have received a DN (default notice?)
PDL company (payday loan i assume?) isnt party to these proceedings.
Basis of my defence is that C has not disclosed docs requested or proved i owe this debt n i havent acknowledged this debt.
So have C enough proof to win this case?
Thank you

[Artan]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

Hi guys
Any help for my case please?
Thanks a lot

[Diana M]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

Any help for my case please?

As I understand it (correct me if I've misunderstood) your claim is currently stayed after you filed your Defence.

It's now up to the Claimant to make a decision on whether they wish to continue with the proceedings which will necessitate them making a paid-for application to the court to lift the stay.

Legal proceedings evolve over time.

Di

[Artan]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

Thanks Di
How much costs the applivation to lift the stay cos im mindful of the costs and are the bank statements proof of debt?

[Diana M]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

How much costs the applivation to lift the stay cos im mindful of the costs

An application costs £255 but that would be paid by the Claimant if they want to lift the stay to continue with the proceedings. You wouldn't be making an application unless you wanted to ask the court to do something on your behalf such as strike out the claim.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Urgent - are bank statements proof of debt?

PoC say that C claims payment of the overdue balance due from D under a contract between D and the bank dated on or about oct 29 2010 and assigned to the C on Apr 29 2014.
Particulars a/c no *********
Date 10 sep 16( however claim issue date is in oct 16)
Item: default balance
Value £ 1200

I dont think i have received a NOA (notice of assignment ? )
This seems to be an unauthorised OD
I dont think i have received a DN (default notice?)
PDL company (payday loan i assume?) isnt party to these proceedings.
Basis of my defence is that C has not disclosed docs requested or proved i owe this debt n i havent acknowledged this debt.

You say the POC state that the contract between you and the bank was dated on or about 29th October 2010 .

You say the claim Issue Date is October 2016 (no exact day/date given) but you also stated the claim was served on 10th September 2016 so this needs clarifying.

You say the basis of your Defence was (absence of documents and) "I have not acknowledged this debt". Do you mean you've pleaded the debt is Statute Barred?

Since this is an overdraft the COA for SB purposes could be the remedy date stated on any Final Demand issued by the bank. Have you sent the bank (original creditor) a Subject Access Request to establish the true history of the account. If not then do that now.

Which solicitors are are you dealing with on behalf of Arrow? Is it Restons, Shoosmiths or another firm?

Di