trying to get CCJ removed

[lyoung]

I was hoping someone here would be able to help me with this. This CCJ was settled a long time ago and I’ve now finally succeeded in getting it marked as ‘satisfied’ after several weeks of effort. I’m now trying to get the claim taken off my record but am unsure of the best way to go about this.


I’ll try to be as brief as possible:


My CCJ originally dates from September 2015. The claim related to damage from a van rental (which was covered under insurance with the rental company). I was unaware of the CCJ at first because it was sent to an old address and so I wasn’t able to do anything about it and didn’t know anything about it until several months later (February this year) when my collected post was given to my by the new occupants of my old address.


At that point I phoned the claimants’ solicitors (ready to pay the amount, as I was unsure of the details of the insurance cover and whether an excess applied) and was told that the claim had already been settled by the rental company and there was no money to pay. I also contacted the rental company who told me the same thing. I assumed that I didn’t need to do anything more about it at that point, and put it out of my mind until around a month ago, when I discovered that this CCJ was still on my credit record, and was still marked as active (unsatisfied).


I’ve been trying to get this CCJ marked as ‘satisfied’ since then by contacting the claimants’ lawyers, the rental company, and the County Court Money Claims Centre, and I’ve finally managed to do this, but I’m now trying to figure out how to get the CCJ removed from my record. The claim was paid (by the rental company’s insurance) in October 2015, just slightly over 28 days after the date of the claim.


I understand from speaking to the CCMCC that I need to fill out an N244 form, but I’m a bit unsure about what I have to do regarding consent from the different parties involved, etc..


If anyone could help me with these questions I’d appreciate it very much:


Do I have a good chance of getting this taken off my record, or am I wasting my time?


Should it be the rental company’s responsibility to deal with the N244 form, since it seems like they were at fault for taking longer than 28 days to pay?


If I need consent from the claimants’ lawyers, what would this consist of? Would I fill in the N244 then send it to them to sign?


Any help would be much appreciated, this has been driving me crazy for the last month!

[Debt Camel]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

I'm not sure why you have been told to use a N244 form.

I've written an article here http://debtcamel.co.uk/paid-ccj-satisfied/ that covers what needs to be done. That says produce your bank statement showing it has been paid - I in your case I guess you are going to need a letter from the Insurance company stating that they have paid this money on dd/mm/yy or a letter from the claimant's lawyers agreeing they have received the money.

[charitynjw]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

Could this be a collision damage waiver issue?
If so, the hire company should have details.

[lyoung]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

I'm not sure why you have been told to use a N244 form.

I've written an article here http://debtcamel.co.uk/paid-ccj-satisfied/ that covers what needs to be done. That says produce your bank statement showing it has been paid - I in your case I guess you are going to need a letter from the Insurance company stating that they have paid this money on dd/mm/yy or a letter from the claimant's lawyers agreeing they have received the money.

I'm not sure this is relevant to me, since my CCJ has now been marked as satisfied. This happened after I contacted the claimants' lawyers to ask them to send a letter to the court, as you suggest.

But since it took the insurance company slightly longer than 28 days to pay, the CCJ is still on my record (marked as satisfied, but still there). What I'm trying to do now is to get the judgment taken off my record, if this is possible, on the grounds that:
-the claim was sent to an old address and I had no knowledge of it until several months later, and
-it seems like it would be the insurance company's fault that they paid late, and not mine

I've been told my the CCMCC and by someone at the rental company that I need an N244 to do this (I know that there's a fee, and that different fees apply depending on whether or not you have consent of all parties). I'm not sure what chance I have of being successful, or what the best way is to go about this.

[charitynjw]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

An N244 is an application for a court order, in this case probably seeking a set aside re the CCJ.
If it is accepted, proceedings will revert back to being a live claim. It does not overturn the decision in favour of the defendant.
If it were me, I would find out exactly what were the details/issues involved in this case, & the exact reason for the CCJ.
Precise details are important, as one of the criteria that the court will look at is whether the defendant has a reasonable prospect of a defence to the stated claim. It is therefore necessary to know what the Particulars of Claim were; assumption of this could be a mistake.
Also, time is a factor; the court will expect prompt action once the CCJ was discovered.

[nemesis45]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

The system dictates that a judge must be paid within 28 days from the date of judgement it appears that this did not happen meaning the " satisfied " entry remains.

You might try approaching the claimant formally in writing to see if they are willing to do anything.

nem

[Diana M]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

The way I read this situation is that you never owed the Claimant a penny in the first place if they/their insurers were liable not you. I presume that was the case or they wouldn't have paid the CCJ would they.

The claim was issued and served on the wrong address. That gives you the right to apply for a set aside of the CCJ. You've not said why it went to the wrong address but that may be relevant.

As Charity has said you would also need to demonstrate to the court that if the claim were to be reinstated (after the CCJ is set aside) that you would have a reasonable chance of success in defending the claim. Common sense says if you weren't liable for paying it then your chances of success should be high.

In the very least by not receiving the summons you were denied the opportunity to join the insurers in the claim as a Part 20 Defendant.

What you need to do is contact the Claimant's solicitors (for the rental company) and ask them to consent to a set aside of the CCJ, and ask them to draw up the Consent Order which says both parties consent to set aside the judgment and ask the court "respectfully" to dismiss the claim at the same time.

Let them know that if they don't agree to do this, you will be making an application to the court (N244) and you will be seeking payment of your costs. Remind them that their client has admitted liability by paying the sum claim even if the actual payment was made by a third party (their insurers if they did).

I would also make them aware that a CCJ on your CRA file is having a negative impact on your credit rating and you are taking advice on whether you should make a claim against their client for damages.

I'm saying all this without having seen any paperwork but it's my gut reaction to this unfair situation which appears not to have been your fault.

Do everything in writing not on the phone so you have evidence that you tried to resolve things amicably.

I would also check any household insurance policies you may have which may include legal expenses cover because this may be something where free legal help is available to you. Ironically the insurance you took out for the van rental may have such cover

Di

[lyoung]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

Thanks for the responses everyone.

An N244 is an application for a court order, in this case probably seeking a set aside re the CCJ.
If it is accepted, proceedings will revert back to being a live claim. It does not overturn the decision in favour of the defendant.
If it were me, I would find out exactly what were the details/issues involved in this case, & the exact reason for the CCJ.
Precise details are important, as one of the criteria that the court will look at is whether the defendant has a reasonable prospect of a defence to the stated claim. It is therefore necessary to know what the Particulars of Claim were; assumption of this could be a mistake.
Also, time is a factor; the court will expect prompt action once the CCJ was discovered.

I was told that I should try and get the claim marked as 'satisfied' first, then try to get it removed from the register. This is what was told to me multiple times by the court claims centre and also by the insurance company, so it would be a bit annoying if it turned out to be wrong.

If the N244 was accepted then it would be reverted back to a live claim, and then I would need to do something else to get the claim set aside? Is this the only option available to me if I want to get the CCJ taken off my record?

I would love to get some more precise details about why the CCJ was issued and the details of the case, but no one I've spoken to at the claimant's lawyers or at the van rental company (or the company that provides their insurance) seem to be able to tell me anything about it. I can keep trying, but I've already spoken to a lot of people, and no one seems to know anything about it.

If I did learn more information about why the CCJ was issued, what other possible courses of action could this lead to?

The way I read this situation is that you never owed the Claimant a penny in the first place if they/their insurers were liable not you. I presume that was the case or they wouldn't have paid the CCJ would they.

The claim was issued and served on the wrong address. That gives you the right to apply for a set aside of the CCJ. You've not said why it went to the wrong address but that may be relevant.

As Charity has said you would also need to demonstrate to the court that if the claim were to be reinstated (after the CCJ is set aside) that you would have a reasonable chance of success in defending the claim. Common sense says if you weren't liable for paying it then your chances of success should be high.

In the very least by not receiving the summons you were denied the opportunity to join the insurers in the claim as a Part 20 Defendant.

What you need to do is contact the Claimant's solicitors (for the rental company) and ask them to consent to a set aside of the CCJ, and ask them to draw up the Consent Order which says both parties consent to set aside the judgment and ask the court "respectfully" to dismiss the claim at the same time.

Let them know that if they don't agree to do this, you will be making an application to the court (N244) and you will be seeking payment of your costs. Remind them that their client has admitted liability by paying the sum claim even if the actual payment was made by a third party (their insurers if they did).

I would also make them aware that a CCJ on your CRA file is having a negative impact on your credit rating and you are taking advice on whether you should make a claim against their client for damages.

I'm saying all this without having seen any paperwork but it's my gut reaction to this unfair situation which appears not to have been your fault.

Do everything in writing not on the phone so you have evidence that you tried to resolve things amicably.

I would also check any household insurance policies you may have which may include legal expenses cover because this may be something where free legal help is available to you. Ironically the insurance you took out for the van rental may have such cover

Di

One detail to add to this is that it was the insurance I took out through the van rental that paid the claim, not the claimant's insurers (I'm not sure how much this changes things).

The CCJ was sent to a wrong address (with a misspelled name) because the address which was given to the claimant's lawyers by the insurance company (I assume) was my old address.

Should I still approach the claimant's lawyers in the way you suggest, even though what you said about their client admitting liability isn't correct (since it was my insurer who paid it)?

The system dictates that a judge must be paid within 28 days from the date of judgement it appears that this did not happen meaning the " satisfied " entry remains.

You might try approaching the claimant formally in writing to see if they are willing to do anything.

What would that consist of? If it's not an N244, what do I/they have to do?

The claim was not paid within 28 days, it took slightly longer than this for the insurance from my van rental to pay the claim (which all happened without my knowledge, this was several months before I even knew the claim existed). I don't know why they took longer than 28 days, and neither does anyone I've been able to speak with at the rental company. This may seem weird but basically no one I speak to wants to admit that their department has any responsibility and I'm just constantly passed from one person to the next. I've lost count of the number of people I've actually spoken to.

[Diana M]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

One detail to add to this is that it was the insurance I took out through the van rental that paid the claim, not the claimant's insurers.

So who was the Claimant?

Do you mean you were involved in an accident, and the other driver (Claimant?) claimed off you, so your insurers paid out albeit slowly?

Di

[nemesis45]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

Thanks for the responses everyone.



I was told that I should try and get the claim marked as 'satisfied' first, then try to get it removed from the register. This is what was told to me multiple times by the court claims centre and also by the insurance company, so it would be a bit annoying if it turned out to be wrong.

If the N244 was accepted then it would be reverted back to a live claim, and then I would need to do something else to get the claim set aside? Is this the only option available to me if I want to get the CCJ taken off my record?

I would love to get some more precise details about why the CCJ was issued and the details of the case, but no one I've spoken to at the claimant's lawyers or at the van rental company (or the company that provides their insurance) seem to be able to tell me anything about it. I can keep trying, but I've already spoken to a lot of people, and no one seems to know anything about it.

If I did learn more information about why the CCJ was issued, what other possible courses of action could this lead to?



One detail to add to this is that it was the insurance I took out through the van rental that paid the claim, not the claimant's insurers (I'm not sure how much this changes things).

The CCJ was sent to a wrong address (with a misspelled name) because the address which was given to the claimant's lawyers by the insurance company (I assume) was my old address.

Should I still approach the claimant's lawyers in the way you suggest, even though what you said about their client admitting liability isn't correct (since it was my insurer who paid it)?




What would that consist of? If it's not an N244, what do I/they have to do?

The claim was not paid within 28 days, it took slightly longer than this for the insurance from my van rental to pay the claim (which all happened without my knowledge, this was several months before I even knew the claim existed). I don't know why they took longer than 28 days, and neither does anyone I've been able to speak with at the rental company. This may seem weird but basically no one I speak to wants to admit that their department has any responsibility and I'm just constantly passed from one person to the next. I've lost count of the number of people I've actually spoken to.

Personally I think you owed nothing anyway, but My first approach would be to the MD/CEO of the entity that actually paid the money but paid it late (how) late?? Putting it before them in a Formal Complaint letter backed up with the full account of what actually happened and what you want them to do to remedy the situation to your satisfaction.
You of course remind the party concerned that you make seek a legal remedy if the matter can't be settled amicably.


Doing it this way costs are not a risk for you.

nem

Application by N244 to the local court £255.00 this attempt cost of signed for post.

[lyoung]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

So who was the Claimant?

Do you mean you were involved in an accident, and the other driver (Claimant?) claimed off you, so your insurers paid out albeit slowly?

Yes, that's basically what happened. The 'accident' consisted of me scraping against the bumper of a (stationary) car on the way out of the car park. At the time the damage seemed fairly minor to me, and I was surprised at the repair cost in the documents issued with the claim (as well as being surprised that I was being asked to pay the money personally as I had thought it would've been covered by the insurance which I took out).

Personally I think you owed nothing anyway, but My first approach would be to the MD/CEO of the entity that actually paid the money but paid it late (how) late?? Putting it before them in a Formal Complaint letter backed up with the full account of what actually happened and what you want them to do to remedy the situation to your satisfaction.
You of course remind the party concerned that you make seek a legal remedy if the matter can't be settled amicably.

What should I ask them to do to remedy the situation? Make a Consent Order, as Diana suggests? Would this also have to involve seeking the consent of the claimant or the claimant's lawyers?

[Diana M]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

The 'accident' consisted of me scraping against the bumper of a (stationary) car on the way out of the car park. At the time the damage seemed fairly minor to me, and I was surprised at the repair cost in the documents issued with the claim (as well as being surprised that I was being asked to pay the money personally as I had thought it would've been covered by the insurance which I took out

Well that might change things slightly.

If I've now understood you correctly, it's your own insurance company which was slow to settle the claim so not the Claimant's fault you got a CCJ.

In fact if your insurance company paid out for the damage then that could only have been because you were liable for the incident. Wasn't the other driver (the Claimant) made aware of the insurance claim being progressed by your insurers?

Help me understand one more thing: if you didn't know about the CCJ because the claim was sent to the wrong address, how did see the repair costs documents issued with the claim (as you said in your last post)?

Di

[lyoung]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

Wasn't the other driver (the Claimant) made aware of the insurance claim being progressed by your insurers?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.

I assume that the claimant must have been aware that the claim was paid (when it was paid), and that it was paid by my insurer?

I did finally receive the documents for the CCJ, but not until 5 months after they were issued, when my collected post was given to me by the new occupant at my old address. This is when I saw the repair documents.

[Diana M]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.

I assume that the claimant must have been aware that the claim was paid (when it was paid), and that it was paid by my insurer?

Lots of misunderstandings going on

The Claimant would probably have been aware when the claim was settled, but my point was why did they issue a claim in the first place if your insurers were handling the claim? They could hardly handle the accident claim without the other driver knowing.

Di

[nemesis45]

Re: trying to get CCJ removed

The van rental company insurers paid the money I think??