Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

[mumisskint]

This morning I have received a letter from HSBC Assitant General Counsel. It says I owe them £12k but they would take 9k in 10 days in full and final settlement.

The debt I think is for an OD on a personal account. When it hit £3k overdrawn (2005?) they stopped me from using the account and bounced every DD. They continued though to take my mortgage payment (£600 a month) for a mortgage with them. They then added on unauthorised overdraft fees. This continued until the OD hit £11k and then they stopped taking the mortgage from the account to.

They then went and got a CCJ. They repossessed my home and now they obviously want this back as well.

My questions are this:
1) Can I challenge the amount they want or is it too late? I think when I told them I couldn't afford my mortgage they should have repossessed the house then (2006) rather than keep taking the payment like this leaving an already broke household in more debt.

They didnt repossess until 2015 - despite them knowing through being told and non payment for ages that we just didnt have the money for the house no matter how hard we tried.


2) Can I get the charges refunded - I did always try to pay some towards the mortgage but they kept putting the interest rates up and the fees of £800 were added every 6 months on review so it became impossible. The arrears on the loan were added in at one point - I thought they had included this in that - but clearly not.

3) I did try to stop the repossession but they continually sent letters to the house they knew I had left 18 months before, not my new address which they admitted they had the other day.

4) They told me another account I had with them had closed. This was at the same time as my son decided he no longer wanted to see his father anymore and he stopped contact. I was told continously by the bank that the maintenance that went into this closed account had stopped also. During the repossession they sent paperwork that told me there was £15,000. Turned out my ex had continued to pay the maintenance. HSBC never sent me one statement on the account and I didnt ask as they told me it was closed. The arrears on the house were £13,000k. The money for the loan had been coming out of this account with the £15k in it. How can they repossess a house for arrears when there is £2k more than they need in one account and also why didnt they just take it for the OD?

I want to go back to the court and say - this happened. Is this OK for a bank to cause considerable hardship - we were £600 a month down as they held this money back from us and lied that the account was closed. The impact is immense - we lost our home, we lost everything. If we were poor before they did this - the aftermath was totally soul destroying.

Can I do anything?

Thank you.

[nemesis45]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

Good morning, welcome to LB,

Is the £12-9 a mortgage short fall from the sale of the property?

nem

[mumisskint]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

Hi, No it isnt - its an OD but one the bank ran up.
They stopped me using the account and bounced all the DD's etc but continued taking the mortgage payment from it creating an overdraft that was unauthorised and they never authorised.

[nemesis45]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

Hi, No it isnt - its an OD but one the bank ran up.
They stopped me using the account and bounced all the DD's etc but continued taking the mortgage payment from it creating an overdraft that was unauthorised and they never authorised.

Ok,

When was the OD last used by you personally e.g. last time any payment in to the account?

nem

[mumisskint]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

About 2006 I guess? Maybe 2005.
Mum

[Openlaw15]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

This morning I have received a letter from HSBC Assitant General Counsel. It says I owe them £12k but they would take 9k in 10 days in full and final settlement.

The debt I think is for an OD on a personal account. When it hit £3k overdrawn (2005?) they stopped me from using the account and bounced every DD. They continued though to take my mortgage payment (£600 a month) for a mortgage with them. They then added on unauthorised overdraft fees. This continued until the OD hit £11k and then they stopped taking the mortgage from the account to.

They then went and got a CCJ. They repossessed my home and now they obviously want this back as well.

My questions are this:
1) Can I challenge the amount they want or is it too late? I think when I told them I couldn't afford my mortgage they should have repossessed the house then (2006) rather than keep taking the payment like this leaving an already broke household in more debt.

They didnt repossess until 2015 - despite them knowing through being told and non payment for ages that we just didnt have the money for the house no matter how hard we tried.


2) Can I get the charges refunded - I did always try to pay some towards the mortgage but they kept putting the interest rates up and the fees of £800 were added every 6 months on review so it became impossible. The arrears on the loan were added in at one point - I thought they had included this in that - but clearly not.

3) I did try to stop the repossession but they continually sent letters to the house they knew I had left 18 months before, not my new address which they admitted they had the other day.

4) They told me another account I had with them had closed. This was at the same time as my son decided he no longer wanted to see his father anymore and he stopped contact. I was told continously by the bank that the maintenance that went into this closed account had stopped also. During the repossession they sent paperwork that told me there was £15,000. Turned out my ex had continued to pay the maintenance. HSBC never sent me one statement on the account and I didnt ask as they told me it was closed. The arrears on the house were £13,000k. The money for the loan had been coming out of this account with the £15k in it. How can they repossess a house for arrears when there is £2k more than they need in one account and also why didnt they just take it for the OD?

I want to go back to the court and say - this happened. Is this OK for a bank to cause considerable hardship - we were £600 a month down as they held this money back from us and lied that the account was closed. The impact is immense - we lost our home, we lost everything. If we were poor before they did this - the aftermath was totally soul destroying.

Can I do anything?

Thank you.

I see the property was repossessed only recently, in 2015. In law, as person with a mortgage (mortgagor), you have the right to pay it off (right to redemption). You have up to 12 years to make a claim against the bank, in general. You say the debts on the house were £13,000, do you mean the mortgage debts were £13,000? How much equity was in the property at the time of the repossession? How was the repossession carried out, ie was it by a Court Order of Possession, or was it via the bank's LPA Receiver? Were there any suspend possession orders, or any stays (delaying possession) for a short time? If you take this back to court, you can do it via the County Court as loss of a 'right to redemption' claim. Before 2013/ 2014 it had to be done via the High Court, but the Tories changed the law where now property (ie mortgage and property issues) claims up to £350,000 can be heard by the County Court, for any losses you may have.

[nemesis45]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

About 2006 I guess? Maybe 2005.
Mum

If no payments or written acknowledgments have been made since 2005/2006 the debt is statute barred.

Have you checked credit reference files? If not check Noddle it's free online.

Do you remember receiving Final Demand for Repayment of the outstanding balance?

Do you know the default date of termination date?

nem

[mumisskint]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

So the mortgage outstanding was £137000
The mortgage arrears were £13000

In the bank account they said they closed in 2011 was £15,000 – my child maintenance. My son stopped seeing his Dad and his Dad said he would stop maintenance. Clearly he didn’t. This came to light in 2014 when their lawyers finally issued court paper work for the repossession they began in 2011 – hence the account closing then. I did a right of first appropriation claim in 2014 and they gave me the £15000. I asked if I could pay off the arrears and they repossessed anyway – seemingly they didn’t follow any court protocol and they sent all in the info to the house being repossessed even though they knew I left in May 2014 – I even gave them back the keys. Hence I never made a court hearing as I didn’t know when they were.

The OD I posted about initially – this £12k – was for an account in 2004. They shut this one in 2006 when the oD was 3k. They continued to take the payment for the mortgage until the unauthorized OD was 12k. I told them through out this time that I couldn’t afford the mortgage but they kept going. I didn’t make a payment for 18 months. I thought they then rolled it into the mortgage but seemingly they got a CCJ instead. They then closed this account and opened the one above to service the loan.

I didn’t / don’t have the money to redeem the mortgage though?
Can a CCJ be statute barred?

- - - Updated - - -

[nemesis45]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

So the mortgage outstanding was £137000
The mortgage arrears were £13000

In the bank account they said they closed in 2011 was £15,000 – my child maintenance. My son stopped seeing his Dad and his Dad said he would stop maintenance. Clearly he didn’t. This came to light in 2014 when their lawyers finally issued court paper work for the repossession they began in 2011 – hence the account closing then. I did a right of first appropriation claim in 2014 and they gave me the £15000. I asked if I could pay off the arrears and they repossessed anyway – seemingly they didn’t follow any court protocol and they sent all in the info to the house being repossessed even though they knew I left in May 2014 – I even gave them back the keys. Hence I never made a court hearing as I didn’t know when they were.

The OD I posted about initially – this £12k – was for an account in 2004. They shut this one in 2006 when the oD was 3k. They continued to take the payment for the mortgage until the unauthorized OD was 12k. I told them through out this time that I couldn’t afford the mortgage but they kept going. I didn’t make a payment for 18 months. I thought they then rolled it into the mortgage but seemingly they got a CCJ instead. They then closed this account and opened the one above to service the loan.

I didn’t / don’t have the money to redeem the mortgage though?
Can a CCJ be statute barred?

- - - Updated - - -

Is there a CCJ on record for this over draft?
Was any money being paid into the OD at all during the period after the account was closed in 2006?

It seems to me that apart from the bank debiting mortgage payment (from an account with no money paid in?) this account has nothing to do with the mortgage is that right?

I think you need to get a full explanation of what has been done with this account is sounds rather confused to me.

Perhaps a Subject Access Request to the bank this is made under the provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998 and compels a recipient to provide all the data it holds on you, Cost is £10.00 and allows 40 days for compliance.
It would not be the first time a bank has been caught out taking non existent money from one account to service another leaving the account hold in a parlous financial state.

I also think not allowing you to repay the arrears and then going for repo was unfair and unreasonable.

As to the current requirement for£9K as request a full explanation from the department and send the SAR to the data controller at the banks head office.

nem


nem

[mumisskint]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

The other thing is the mortgage was a business loan as I had my own company in 2004, closed in 2006 - but the loan was in my name not the company's. They had me down as Property Developer, which I never was and I was buying a house for me and my son to live in, not do up and sell on or rent out. They even said my income from this was £40k to keep the loan renewals going every 6 months for 8 years.

Can payments on a business loan be taken from a personal account? Is that Ok?

My company folded in 2006. I havent been self employed since. Yet they insisted the second account was a business account to service the loan.

[nemesis45]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

The other thing is the mortgage was a business loan as I had my own company in 2004, closed in 2006 - but the loan was in my name not the company's. They had me down as Property Developer, which I never was and I was buying a house for me and my son to live in, not do up and sell on or rent out. They even said my income from this was £40k to keep the loan renewals going every 6 months for 8 years.

Can payments on a business loan be taken from a personal account? Is that Ok?

My company folded in 2006. I havent been self employed since. Yet they insisted the second account was a business account to service the loan.

See post #8.

The business loan/mortgage was presumably at Business interest rates?

I think you have been a victim of HSBC's incompetence and underhand dealings, as they were informed that the mortgage was for a home not business premises it compound the amount of bad advice and inappropriate accounts.

SAR is needed imo tell the department that you are seeking full disclosure of all matters relating to the OD and the mortgage via the Data Protection Act one £10 fee covers all the accounts held.

As an aside was there PPI on any accounts.

nem

[mumisskint]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

The interest rates started at 2% above base and ended at 8% above base. Its almost like Monty Python. I would tell them I had no money. I wouldn't pay anything for huge amounts of time as a result. I even asked them to repossess. They would then come to review the loan, put up the interest rates by 2%, charge me £800 into the loan, never check my financial circumstances and the payments would double by 100%. There was no pre action protocol at all on the repossession.

I've asked for an SAR twice since 2010 and they havent done a thing or provided the info. So a further £20 down.

As for PPI I have no idea - statements have been rariety in this fiasco.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

The other thing is the mortgage was a business loan as I had my own company in 2004, closed in 2006 - but the loan was in my name not the company's. They had me down as Property Developer, which I never was and I was buying a house for me and my son to live in, not do up and sell on or rent out. They even said my income from this was £40k to keep the loan renewals going every 6 months for 8 years.

Can payments on a business loan be taken from a personal account? Is that Ok?

My company folded in 2006. I havent been self employed since. Yet they insisted the second account was a business account to service the loan.

A commercial mortgage should have been linked to the business (if it was incorporated, ie legally registered as a company)..not your personal property. Was it an overdraft loan linked to the business? As your company, assuming it's a legal company, closed down in 2006 as in stop trading, I believe the company should no longer have existed to continue any business transactions. What banks usually use in these circumstances is 'personal guarantees' to ensure mortgage payments continues when the company is dissolved or liquidated.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

So the mortgage outstanding was £137000
The mortgage arrears were £13000

In the bank account they said they closed in 2011 was £15,000 – my child maintenance. My son stopped seeing his Dad and his Dad said he would stop maintenance. Clearly he didn’t. This came to light in 2014 when their lawyers finally issued court paper work for the repossession they began in 2011 – hence the account closing then. I did a right of first appropriation claim in 2014 and they gave me the £15000. I asked if I could pay off the arrears and they repossessed anyway – seemingly they didn’t follow any court protocol and they sent all in the info to the house being repossessed even though they knew I left in May 2014 – I even gave them back the keys. Hence I never made a court hearing as I didn’t know when they were.

The OD I posted about initially – this £12k – was for an account in 2004. They shut this one in 2006 when the oD was 3k. They continued to take the payment for the mortgage until the unauthorized OD was 12k. I told them through out this time that I couldn’t afford the mortgage but they kept going. I didn’t make a payment for 18 months. I thought they then rolled it into the mortgage but seemingly they got a CCJ instead. They then closed this account and opened the one above to service the loan.

I didn’t / don’t have the money to redeem the mortgage though?
Can a CCJ be statute barred?

- - - Updated - - -

Once a CCJ has been issued as far's am aware it cannot be statute barred. The reason for this is that the CCJ is in itself a cause of action (ie a successful claim), the limitation act only relates to claims not made or not acknowledged within X period. As it was a mortgage the claim period would normally have been 12 years, longer in some exceptional circumstances. It sounds to me overall like the bank's negligence, as far's am aware they cannot offset a non commercial overdraft against a commercial mortgage.

[Diana M]

Re: Please could I get some advice on what to do? HSBC

I even asked them to repossess. They would then come to review the loan, put up the interest rates by 2%, charge me £800 into the loan, never check my financial circumstances and the payments would double by 100%. There was no pre action protocol at all on the repossession.

What a tale of woe, you poor thing!

Was the property repossessed as the result of a Summons for Possession issued in the County Court, or did the bank send in a LPA Receiver since this was a commercial loan? There may not have been a court hearing if it was 'seized' by the Receivers.

Who was living in the property from 2006 until it was 'repossessed' last year?

Di