Rossendales CT bill

[Ange2306]

Me and my husband split up in January 2016 and just afterwards I received a letter from rossendales Ltd saying I was jointly responsible for an unpaid council tax bill of just over £400, I contacted them to try and arrange a payment plan and my offer was refused they wanted £30 per week, I have 2 children one of whom is seriously ill although I don't receive DLA for her, I receive income support, child tax credit and child benefit I don't work either. 2 weeks later an enforcement agent came to my property and entered my property by telling me they were here to help and to sort out payment plan, this was never done instead they listed goods to remove even though they admitted the goods were not going to cover the amount owed and then added on additional costs. To cut the story short they never removed my goods or returned to the property. I contacted the local council in April to query what was going on and they advised that now they had got an address for my husband they would pass this over to rossendales to chase him instead of me. My husband contacted me 3 days ago fuming that an enforcement agent had been to his property and had posted a letter saying this was his final warning and his refusal to pay would leave them no alternative but to advise their client to take this to court and have him imprisoned, they want him to pay all the costs they added onto the initial council tax bill too, can they do this surely he should be given an opportunity to set up a plan with them and not be told to pay up or go prison, he works but is on a limited income and has to pay csa for 2 kids. Can anybody help please I want to help him but neither of us can afford there demands.

[Kati]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

tagging [MENTION=9189]bizzybob[/MENTION] [MENTION=26498]ploddertom[/MENTION] [MENTION=30549]bluebottle[/MENTION] [MENTION=30402]Milo[/MENTION]

[Ange2306]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

The outstanding balance is now over £730

[Milo]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

tagging @bizzybob @ploddertom @bluebottle @Milo

I am not sure why, but I was only made away that you tagged me when I received a message from another poster. Do you have the right contact details for me?

PS: As it is very late, I will come back in the morning.

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

Hi Ange2306 and welcome ....

I worked as local authority council tax enforcement officer for 23 years and this scenario is all too familiar. I was always certificated to execute removal of goods but in 23 years I actually only did that two or three times as the power of sensible negotiation was always the better route.

Certainly, Rossendales really have no other enforcement route other than the removal of goods but the enforcement agent at your door must ask you for permission to legally enter specifically for the purpose of listing goods to the value of the debt. Clearly they have reported back to the council that you have insufficient goods to distrain upon ( and from what you say, sensibly so ) and with a new contact address for your estranged husband, it is in their eyes sensible to pursue him. I would have done the same thing.

I remember the threat of imprisonment being clearly emphasised in every letter the council sent but most people ignored it. You can only be sent to prison for no payment if you were 'culpably neglectful' of paying the charge ( i.e. had the money but chose not to do so ) or showed 'wilful refusal to pay' through simple objection. From what you say, neither of those apply and the threat of prison is simply not going to happen here.

Frankly I would write a strong letter to the council stating the fact that Rossendales did not enter your property with legal permission and therefore trespassed. I would also place a firm weekly offer that between you and your husband is affordable. They may reject any communication, stating that it is in the hands of their enforcement agents, but still write in as I say and give an exact copy to your husband to offer the enforcement agents when they next call.

Sensibly, blood cannot be got out of a stone ( how many times have I heard that ? ) and a sensible achievable offer that you are prepared to stick to and can be demonstrated by a resume of both incomes and expenditure ( your local CAB may well help you with that one ).

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

[wales01man]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

Interesting insight into how the system works shows that a lot of threats come from councils and Bailiffs I like the Blood out of stone quote
Thanks Snoopy

[Milo]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

Frankly I would write a strong letter to the council stating the fact that Rossendales did not enter your property with legal permission and therefore trespassed. I would also place a firm weekly offer that between you and your husband is affordable. They may reject any communication, stating that it is in the hands of their enforcement agents, but still write in as I say and give an exact copy to your husband to offer the enforcement agents when they next call.



https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

Snoopy,

I am just a bit confused as to why you think that Ange should be writing a strong letter to the council and threatening that Rossendales had trespassed.

The visit to her property took place over 6 months ago, and after realising that she has insufficient assets, they have instead tried to pursue her ex husband (which they are entitled to do as the debt is a joint one).

Perhaps I have missed something.

[wales01man]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

If they get nothing from the EX will they return to the OP or is it the end of the matter for her?

[Ange2306]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

Quick update my husband phoned the enforcement agent today and was told he has refused to pay so they have no option but to remove his goods, they are not even giving him the option of a payment plan like I said he has only just found out about this debt is this normal practice?

[Milo]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

Quick update my husband phoned the enforcement agent today and was told he has refused to pay so they have no option but to remove his goods, they are not even giving him the option of a payment plan like I said he has only just found out about this debt is this normal practice?

When your husband called, did he offer a repayment proposal?

You mentioned yesterday that you spoke with the council about three months ago and they informed you that they were seeking to enforce the debt against your ex husband. Did you contact your ex to alert him that he would be facing bailiff enforcement?

[Ange2306]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

They advised him a repayment proposal was no longer an option as this has been going on since January and the only choice was to pay in full or lose his property, or face jail time.

I have had no contact with my ex husband until 4 weeks ago so No he didn't know anything about this until then, I didn't even know he had a place to live till the council told me.

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

Snoopy,

I am just a bit confused as to why you think that Ange should be writing a strong letter to the council and threatening that Rossendales had trespassed.

The visit to her property took place over 6 months ago, and after realising that she has insufficient assets, they have instead tried to pursue her ex husband (which they are entitled to do as the debt is a joint one).

Perhaps I have missed something.

It was simply a course of action that may lift the need to pursue the debt through enforcement agents and start to ( sensibly ) negotiate directly with the council. Councils can ill afford adverse publicity about their contracted enforcement agents and if the asker felt they acted outside the law, then due consideration should be given to that. Sensibly, councils are far better to accept modest or minimal income streams directly from their debtors rather than to have to administer the thousands of nulla bona reports that bailiffs return every year. Experienced bailiffs will always echo that the pure threat of distraint is enough and they rely heavily on it. I have even seen an NLP course for enforcement agents that is supposed to induce a feeling of compliance from debtors.

But going back to my comment about writing to the council, I am not entirely positive about that as councils vary tremendously in their reaction to complaint. Many accept that bailiffs are a hated commodity and ignore complaints ... others have a strong public image and react more positively. in 1992, when I joined the local authority as an enforcement officer, court appearances were common place to debate ctax debtors but in 2014 when I retired, they simply were not happening any more, at least not in my council. I always maintained an incredible recovery record just by appropriate discussion and understanding of debtors.

[bluebottle]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

Me and my husband split up in January 2016 and just afterwards I received a letter from rossendales Ltd saying I was jointly responsible for an unpaid council tax bill of just over £400, I contacted them to try and arrange a payment plan and my offer was refused they wanted £30 per week, I have 2 children one of whom is seriously ill although I don't receive DLA for her, I receive income support, child tax credit and child benefit I don't work either. 2 weeks later an enforcement agent came to my property and entered my property by telling me they were here to help and to sort out payment plan, this was never done instead they listed goods to remove even though they admitted the goods were not going to cover the amount owed and then added on additional costs. To cut the story short they never removed my goods or returned to the property. I contacted the local council in April to query what was going on and they advised that now they had got an address for my husband they would pass this over to rossendales to chase him instead of me. My husband contacted me 3 days ago fuming that an enforcement agent had been to his property and had posted a letter saying this was his final warning and his refusal to pay would leave them no alternative but to advise their client to take this to court and have him imprisoned, they want him to pay all the costs they added onto the initial council tax bill too, can they do this surely he should be given an opportunity to set up a plan with them and not be told to pay up or go prison, he works but is on a limited income and has to pay csa for 2 kids. Can anybody help please I want to help him but neither of us can afford there demands.

Rossendales up to their old tricks, I see. They need to very careful as regards fees. If the ex-husband didn't know until the letter turned up, he can shout "Foul" and potentially rip the local authority a new one. It is not for Rossendales to make threats of prison. Only the local authority has the power to do that and, even then, the law lays down under what circumstances.

I would contact the local authority and tell them to get a grip on their contracted enforcement agents before they join Blaby Council in the LGO's Hall of Shame.

[bluebottle]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

It was simply a course of action that may lift the need to pursue the debt through enforcement agents and start to ( sensibly ) negotiate directly with the council. Councils can ill afford adverse publicity about their contracted enforcement agents and if the asker felt they acted outside the law, then due consideration should be given to that. Sensibly, councils are far better to accept modest or minimal income streams directly from their debtors rather than to have to administer the thousands of nulla bona reports that bailiffs return every year. Experienced bailiffs will always echo that the pure threat of distraint is enough and they rely heavily on it. I have even seen an NLP course for enforcement agents that is supposed to induce a feeling of compliance from debtors.

But going back to my comment about writing to the council, I am not entirely positive about that as councils vary tremendously in their reaction to complaint. Many accept that bailiffs are a hated commodity and ignore complaints ... others have a strong public image and react more positively. in 1992, when I joined the local authority as an enforcement officer, court appearances were common place to debate ctax debtors but in 2014 when I retired, they simply were not happening any more, at least not in my council. I always maintained an incredible recovery record just by appropriate discussion and understanding of debtors.

And that is why your record was so good. Treating them as human beings and being reasonable and using commonsense. It is a pity EAs these days do not behave in this way as I am sure they would get a lot more co-operation and collect more money than by using brute force and bullying.

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Rossendales CT bill

[/COLOR]And that is why your record was so good. Treating them as human beings and being reasonable and using commonsense. It is a pity EAs these days do not behave in this way as I am sure they would get a lot more co-operation and collect more money than by using brute force and bullying.

Thank you bluebottle ... and apart from council tax, I was charged to recover business rates, overpayment of housing benefit through fraud, ex tenants rent, building regulation unpaid fees and for good luck the odd cesspit emptying account ( I used to call that going through the motions! ) ... the council made good use of its enforcement officers and it benefitted by having them in house although Rossendales ( or similar ) were used for out of the area visits.

If you've ever watched 'Can't Pay, We'll Take It Away', where they following enforcement agents acting for the High Court, you can always see the Good Cop, Bad Cop situation!