Old Unknown CCJ - very small nursery fee

[laui59]

Hi,
Looking for advice.
I recently found out that a local nursery I used in 2012 til January 2013 had filed a claim against me.

However I received no letter from them or calls.
They claimed when I called that in the last month I owed £125 and they sent a letter asking for it.

I quizzed that I had paid and if not why no one asked whilst I was at the nursery or call, to which of course they claim they did. My response then how come you still allowed my son to go?? No reply of course.

Well, I have asked for there documentation to which they only sent 1 letter asking for the payment and forwarded a copy. Of course we had never seen this letter before.
In the letter it states "do no ignore this letter as failure to do so will lead to legal action to recover the amount"

It also says "payment would be appreciated in the next 7 days"

So my understand is hat they have not clearly defined 14 days before legal action will commence or I fact a deadline of when I have to pay by.
Is this correct as I believe his has to be included before a claim can be filed?

At the time I was going through a messy break up and had move out of he property for a spell and then my partner did so all in all it was an awful personal period even if the letters had arrived, which I have no memory of for either the courts or this 1 letter from the nursery in order to defend the claim with the courts. (Honestly)

It was issue according to the courts in 2013 and my worry is that I will just be laughed out of court now if I try to defend it.

I will go through the bank accounts to check if it was paid but I am sooo angry at the nursery for not even calling after using them and paying religiously.

Help please??

Laui

[Amethyst]

Re: Old Unknown CCJ - very small nursery fee

Doesn't sound like great business sense to take that attitude with the parents of the children entrusted to them. Is it part of a chain of nurseries or independent? Is your child happy attending there - sorry just realised it was from back in 2012 so probably not using them any more anyway...

If you check through your bank account and invoices/receipts , also ask the nursery for a full statement of account so you can check your records, and if you find you do owe the £125 it is likely just to be best to pay it - however cross you are about their action it's not worth a CCJ. They'd probably get a slap on the wrist if you defended the action arguing their lack of preaction protocols but it wouldn't stop them obtaining the CCJ ( if you do owe the money ).

If you find you don't owe it and it's an error then of course you should defend their claim. You should acknowledge service of the claim (tick intend to defend in full on the acknoweldgement - it isn't binding so you can change and admit/pay later) while you make enquiries . You can ask them for a statement of account in writing if they refuse on the phone and the letter can then be presented as part of your case which would help if they refused or the statement doesn't show the outstanding payment.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Old Unknown CCJ - very small nursery fee

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] it sounds to me as though [MENTION=48361]laui59[/MENTION] got a CCJ back in 2013.

If she can prove that she had paid the debt, then she could ask for a set aside. Otherwise there is nothing to do except for paying the CCJ - you can't reopen a case because you didn't get the paperwork if you would have no defence to it because you did owe the money.

[Amethyst]

Re: Old Unknown CCJ - very small nursery fee

ahhhh thank you DC, I read

I recently found out that a local nursery I used in 2012 til January 2013 had filed a claim against me.

as they had only just filed a claim from a debt owed in 2012/13 but further on, which I missed

It was issue according to the courts in 2013

So if there is a CCJ already then it will show on the credit file or the register of judgments - and yes, unfortunately for £125 it would be best just to pay it as a set aside application costs the ridiculous amount of £255 now. But it depends really on the rest of your credit file - as this will be damaging it at the moment. Paying it off will have it marked as satisfied but it will still show on the file for another 3 years.

[R0b]

Re: Old Unknown CCJ - very small nursery fee

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] it sounds to me as though [MENTION=48361]laui59[/MENTION] got a CCJ back in 2013.

If she can prove that she had paid the debt, then she could ask for a set aside. Otherwise there is nothing to do except for paying the CCJ - you can't reopen a case because you didn't get the paperwork if you would have no defence to it because you did owe the money.

Sorry but I think I have to disagree with that statement, not receiving the paperwork is a valid reason to set aside the judgment despite not having a defence. The argument you have will be despite having no defence there is some other good reason why it should be set aside and hat will be if the claim was sent properly and received it would have been paid promptly and in full - equally you were deprived of the right to make payment within one month of the judgment being made and again the opportunity to make full payment and not have a damaging CCJ on the credit file which of course is going to cause problems for the next 6 years.

That is of course providing that you don't already have a poor credit file but even still, could be worth the set aside subject to whether or not you have the funds.

[laui59]

Re: Old Unknown CCJ - very small nursery fee

Hi,
Sorry for the confusion, it was more the point that the nursery had not followed protocol before issuing the CCJ, I wish at the time I had the papwork as at that point I could have requested a set aside as 1 letter with no clarification of when action will be taken or deadline for payment would not pass.
It is a double wammy as the nursery didn't try to get the money which we would have happierly have paid and not recieving the courts paperwork.

At the time I was going through a separation and moved out of the family home for a time, I believe it may have been during that time and letters not passed on to me. Grrr

I have since paid it is to the nursery, though I still feel I should fight the CCJ.
Yes I did owe the money, but I don't believe I was given opportunity to pay, can't see how 1 letter then a CCJ claim is every acceptable.

Thoughts? Do I carry on to try and get it removed?

[R0b]

Re: Old Unknown CCJ - very small nursery fee

I think the problem is that you have already paid the nursery and suspect it will be difficult to overturn the CCJ. I suppose one option and it is risky to say the least, would be to contact the nursery, ask them to a consent order of setting aside the CCJ and withdraw the claim as they have already been paid and you were not given any notification that the amount was outstanding nor did you receive any paperwork on the court claim and had no opportunity to make payment. They don't need to pay any fees as you will cover that.

At that point if they do agree then you make a carefully worded application to the court to set aside and claim withdrawn and if the judge agrees then that will be removed. The issue of doing this is that judges are reluctant to do this as it could be seen as a way of people fixing their credit history and would not give a true reflection that a person may have problems in repaying credit or other agreements.

If they refuse then you do the even riskier option of making an application and then asking the court to set aside the judgment. You will need to give exceptional circumstances as to why it should be overturned and your argument will be that fact that no paperwork received and no opportunity to settle - it would be unfair to allow a CCJ remain on file when you have a right to a fair trial and this is not the case.

Alternatively as pointed out already, you have the court mark it as satisfied, £15 I believe but it remains on your file for the 6 year period.

The question you have to ask is whether it is worth paying the application fees to set aside. Again if your credit history aside from the CCJ is good, then it might be worth the money and hassle but it is definitely not guaranteed.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Old Unknown CCJ - very small nursery fee

not receiving the paperwork is a valid reason to set aside the judgment despite not having a defence. The argument you have will be despite having no defence there is some other good reason why it should be set aside and hat will be if the claim was sent properly and received it would have been paid promptly and in full - equally you were deprived of the right to make payment within one month of the judgment being made and again the opportunity to make full payment and not have a damaging CCJ on the credit file which of course is going to cause problems for the next 6 years.

Have you ever been able to have a CCJ set aside on those grounds? Applications to set aside should pass three tests under CPR 39.3 (https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...es/part39#39.3) :

Good reason (not having received the papers in this case);
Promptness (only recently found out about the CCJ); AND
Prospect of success (none here as it is agreed the money was owed).

[R0b]

Re: Old Unknown CCJ - very small nursery fee

Have you ever been able to have a CCJ set aside on those grounds? Applications to set aside should pass three tests under CPR 39.3 (https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...es/part39#39.3) :

Good reason (not having received the papers in this case);
Promptness (only recently found out about the CCJ); AND
Prospect of success (none here as it is agreed the money was owed).

Set aside is based on the grounds CPR 13.2 (mandatory set aside) and CPR 13.3 (discretionary set aside). Not receiving the claim form or particulars of claim falls under CPR 13.3 and so the courts discretion to set aside. The third limb you are referring to is whether there is a prospect of successfully defending the claim or whether there is some other good reason for setting the judgment aside.

Whilst it is agreed that as the debt was owed, the OP did say that they had thought it was already paid so was not aware that monies were outstanding. You could argue that there is a serious injustice against the OP on the basis that she did not receive the claim form or POC from the Claimant. If she had received the papers she would have made sure the payment was made promptly (if can show payment made as soon as CCJ found out) to the Claimant thus avoiding a CCJ marker or the OP could even explain that it would have admitted the claim and made prompt payment there and then again, absolving them of any CCJ marker. In any event, even if the judgment was given they would have had 1 month to make payment before getting a CCJ. The OP had no opportunity to do any of these options.

Is it fair and reasonable for someone who had absolutely no knowledge of a claim against them to have a CCJ for the next 6 years despite making payment if the OP was aware of it? Just because there is no defence to the claim does not mean that it cannot be set aside. If the OP can verify that with exception to this payment, that they had made each previous payment promptly and on time, would that not give further grounds that the OP was likely to have paid the bill if it was known to them?

The thing to bear in mind is that not receiving claim form or the POC does not give grounds for a mandatory set aside but a discretionary one. You then have to show and prove that set aside should be justified and I never said it was guaranteed but there is a risk. There have been cases come to the courts where they have set aside based on the Claimant's conduct, not necessarily a prospect of successfully defending but some other good reason.

P.S to answer your question on whether I have been able to, the short answer is yes on a couple of occasions and other times no but the facts and circumstances were not the same as this.