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Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ?

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  • Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ?

    The title is somewhat misleading, so my immediate apologies. I currently have a DMP servicing debt to 8 separate companies, I am in the process of paying 7 of them in full (I now have just one to go), it is the final DCA debt I need help with.

    Cabot (Marlin) currently have a debt I 'owe', worth approx £25000, I would like to find out how to prevent the company taking me to court for a CCJ. I understand that perhaps there is no way to do so.

    The initial agreement was made between myself and Northern Rock on 13/08/2005 for an unsecured loan totalling £25k exactly and was sold onto Cabot, late 2013. The DMP has reduced debts totalling approx £70k to what it is now, the debt currently stands solely with Cabot for approx. £25k.

    I made an offer to Cabot for full and final of 25%, this was initially agreed verbally on the phone ( I realise doing this was a mistake, I also did not record the conversation!), but subsequently was turned down by Cabot. All conversations are now recorded, although I haven't contacted Cabot since, except to settle a very minor debt of £40, also held by Cabot.

    The reasons I am asking for help are threefold, firstly, legaleeze is baffling to me, I can understand the basics but when it starts getting complex, my mind blows several fuses. And secondly I would like to potentially settle the debt on full and final and I feel I need some bargaining leverage. If I can establish that the company cannot go down the CCJ road, I believe that may strengthen my bargaining position.


    And finally, even though the DMP has kept creditors at bay for almost 10 years, the repayments have been absolutely crippling for me personally and my family by extension. (no holidays, limited support via tutoring at school, xmas, birthdays, etc, etc.,) I have limited spending each month and this means we struggle from month to month. For instance, the carpets are now threadbare in places, just through not being able to afford to replace them. (I understand that many are in a much worse position/situation) And of course, credit is non existent, which is perfectly understandable.

    So in light of my financial situation, I would like to if I can't settle, reduce payments substantially. I currently pay Cabot £100 pcm as part of my DMP with stepchange, which is fine, but my overall monthly outlay to the DMP is over £400, since I am settling with my creditors, Cabot will be the only outstanding debt and I really do not want to reward Cabot with £400 pcm for buying my debt.

    I would be incredibly grateful if anyone can advise me, re: legal position, enforcements via CCA, CPUTR and SARs. re: SARs, I understand they are fairly pointless, but my own objective is to keep the company tied up with requests from me. In short, I want to be as big a pain in the rear as possible and achieve my own financial targets/objectives.

    Again, thank you for any help.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

    Good evening welcome to LB.

    As payments have been made and are continuing the debt is not and cannot be statute barred.
    Preventing court action by Cabot keep paying.

    Have you asked Cabot to produce an agreement/contract for this loan?
    Was this an unregulated loan or one regulated by the Consumer Credit
    Act 1974?

    nem

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

      Hi Nemesis,

      Thank you for your reply.

      I know it cannot be statute barred, nor am I looking to stop paying, the main tenet is to finish the debt altogether preferably through a full and final settlement. Although this is complicated by my payments to my DMP (stepchange), because Cabot are sitting pretty if I'm paying them 400pcm, no real reason to make any kind of reasonable settlement.

      Have you asked Cabot to produce an agreement/contract for this loan?

      No CCA has been sent as yet, that will be my next move. Although, given that Cabot can merely reconstitute an agreement that has not been signed (my understanding), this may have limited impact?

      Was this an unregulated loan or one regulated by the Consumer Credit
      Act 1974?

      I don't actually know the answer to that for sure, were unregulated loans made by Northern Rock? I assume, yes, it was regulated by the CCA 1974, although I cannot confirm this absolutely. I don't have the agreement I signed, therefore I don't know absolutely for sure if it was regulated or not.

      How would I find that out? Or would a CCA to Cabot re: this debt be a quick way to find out?

      Again, thank you for your quick response.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

        Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
        Hi Nemesis,

        Thank you for your reply.

        I know it cannot be statute barred, nor am I looking to stop paying, the main tenet is to finish the debt altogether preferably through a full and final settlement. Although this is complicated by my payments to my DMP (stepchange), because Cabot are sitting pretty if I'm paying them 400pcm, no real reason to make any kind of reasonable settlement.

        Have you asked Cabot to produce an agreement/contract for this loan?

        No CCA has been sent as yet, that will be my next move. Although, given that Cabot can merely reconstitute an agreement that has not been signed (my understanding), this may have limited impact?

        Was this an unregulated loan or one regulated by the Consumer Credit
        Act 1974?

        I don't actually know the answer to that for sure, were unregulated loans made by Northern Rock? I assume, yes, it was regulated by the CCA 1974, although I cannot confirm this absolutely. I don't have the agreement I signed, therefore I don't know absolutely for sure if it was regulated or not.

        How would I find that out? Or would a CCA to Cabot re: this debt be a quick way to find out?

        Again, thank you for your quick response.
        Ok do you know how much you have paid Cabot via the DMP?

        A SAR to NRAM may produce som useful information on the agreement, the request
        needs to be specific on the " agreement" as there is no specific obligation to provide
        it with a SAR.
        Alternative try a CCA to Cabot covered by another to NRAM.

        nem

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

          Nemesis,

          Ok do you know how much you have paid Cabot via the DMP?

          I've paid Cabot a total of £2400 total to date.

          The SAR to NRAM ('agreement') could be made in addition to a CCA to both Cabot and NRAM?

          Thanks,

          SoH

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

            Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
            Nemesis,

            Ok do you know how much you have paid Cabot via the DMP?

            I've paid Cabot a total of £2400 total to date.

            The SAR to NRAM ('agreement') could be made in addition to a CCA to both Cabot and NRAM?

            Thanks,

            SoH
            Yes you would be surprised how the results have varied between a CCA request made direct to a credit and one made to a DCA.
            SAR to the OC may be useful as ALL " personal data" has to be provided.

            nem

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

              Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
              The title is somewhat misleading, so my immediate apologies. I currently have a DMP servicing debt to 8 separate companies, I am in the process of paying 7 of them in full (I now have just one to go), it is the final DCA debt I need help with.
              No need to apologise, I love your idea of 'shorting' a CCJ!
              Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post

              Cabot (Marlin) currently have a debt I 'owe', worth approx £25000, I would like to find out how to prevent the company taking me to court for a CCJ. I understand that perhaps there is no way to do so.

              The initial agreement was made between myself and Northern Rock on 13/08/2005 for an unsecured loan totalling £25k exactly
              For agreements entered into before April 6th 2008, they would have been regulated if they were up to £25,000, excluding interest and other charges.

              and was sold onto Cabot, late 2013. [/QUOTE]
              Out of interest, WHICH flavour of Cabot? Cabot Financial (UK) Limited? Or any other (such as Cabot Europe, Cabot Marlin, etc.)?

              The DMP has reduced debts totalling approx £70k to what it is now, the debt currently stands solely with Cabot for approx. £25k.
              Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
              I made an offer to Cabot for full and final of 25%, this was initially agreed verbally on the phone ( I realise doing this was a mistake, I also did not record the conversation!), but subsequently was turned down by Cabot. All conversations are now recorded, although I haven't contacted Cabot since, except to settle a very minor debt of £40, also held by Cabot.
              Rather than recording the conversations, I'd suggest keeping it all in writing.

              Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
              The reasons I am asking for help are threefold, firstly, legaleeze is baffling to me, I can understand the basics but when it starts getting complex, my mind blows several fuses. And secondly I would like to potentially settle the debt on full and final and I feel I need some bargaining leverage. If I can establish that the company cannot go down the CCJ road, I believe that may strengthen my bargaining position.
              They *could* issue a claim, there's nothing stopping them. Whether they would succeed or not is a different matter. If it was £25k exactly, it looks like it would have been regulated and thus the CCA request would apply. :thumb:

              Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
              I would be incredibly grateful if anyone can advise me, re: legal position, enforcements via CCA, CPUTR and SARs. re: SARs, I understand they are fairly pointless, but my own objective is to keep the company tied up with requests from me. In short, I want to be as big a pain in the rear as possible and achieve my own financial targets/objectives.
              SARs are not pointless, they are useful to obtain statements and all historical data for the account, however, they are not useful to challenge the enforceability of the agreement. A CCA request would be more useful. I've seen other sites recommending using CPUTR as a tool for many years, however, I've yet to see a claim successfully defended on those basis.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

                Nem,

                Yes you would be surprised how the results have varied between a CCA request made direct to a credit and one made to a DCA.

                Do they vary substantially, enough for say a judge to notice? And if there is a difference, how do I make that known to the DCA and won't they simply state they made a slight mistake? (The subtleties of this legal process are totally unknown to me, so baby steps!)

                SAR to the OC may be useful as ALL " personal data" has to be provided.

                In what sense could this be useful? Could you give a couple of examples, perhaps what I might be looking out for myself?

                Thanks,

                SoH

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

                  Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
                  No CCA has been sent as yet, that will be my next move. Although, given that Cabot can merely reconstitute an agreement that has not been signed (my understanding), this may have limited impact?
                  Absolutely not! CABOT who are just a debt purchaser can't reconstitute an agreement, a recon has to be honest and accurate and based on data held about you and your account, including all the terms from inception (when you took out the loan). For that reason, there's no way Cabot could whip one up. Only the original creditor could reconstitute an agreement from their own data sources, although you are right about the fact there's no need for a signature.
                  Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
                  Was this an unregulated loan or one regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974?

                  I don't actually know the answer to that for sure, were unregulated loans made by Northern Rock?
                  That would depend on the amount, back in 2005 anything over £25k would have been unregulated. I now recall reading something about these NRAM loans that were made so as to be unregulated due to the amount of credit being just over the threshold, I have to think where I saw that. :confused2:
                  Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
                  I assume, yes, it was regulated by the CCA 1974, although I cannot confirm this absolutely. I don't have the agreement I signed, therefore I don't know absolutely for sure if it was regulated or not.

                  How would I find that out? Or would a CCA to Cabot re: this debt be a quick way to find out?
                  A way, although possibly not a quick one, as Cabot would have to go back to NRAM who may or may not be able to find something... :noidea:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

                    Hi Flaming Parrot,

                    Thank you for your reply.

                    For agreements entered into before April 6th 2008, they would have been regulated if they were up to £25,000, excluding interest and other charges.

                    The original loan was for exactly 25k, although the state of mind I was in at the time, I'd probably have taken out even more! I'm relieved it is regulated!

                    Out of interest, WHICH flavour of Cabot? Cabot Financial (UK) Limited? Or any other (such as Cabot Europe, Cabot Marlin, etc.)?

                    I think unfortunately, it landed with Cabot Financial (Marlin). Judging by my interactions to date, they are worthy of their 'reputation'.

                    SARs are not pointless, they are useful to obtain statements and all historical data for the account, however, they are not useful to challenge the enforceability of the agreement.

                    Thank you, understood.

                    SoH

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

                      Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
                      Hi Flaming Parrot,

                      Thank you for your reply.

                      For agreements entered into before April 6th 2008, they would have been regulated if they were up to £25,000, excluding interest and other charges.

                      The original loan was for exactly 25k, although the state of mind I was in at the time, I'd probably have taken out even more! I'm relieved it is regulated!
                      Hi

                      I've found the link to the NRAM loans: http://www.n-ram.co.uk/loans/cca-loans
                      Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
                      Out of interest, WHICH flavour of Cabot? Cabot Financial (UK) Limited? Or any other (such as Cabot Europe, Cabot Marlin, etc.)?

                      I think unfortunately, it landed with Cabot Financial (Marlin). Judging by my interactions to date, they are worthy of their 'reputation'.
                      Yes, Marlin bought a shedload of NRAM loans so they probably got transferred to that branch of Cabot rather than the other one. :mmph:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

                        FP,

                        Absolutely not! CABOT who are just a debt purchaser can't reconstitute an agreement, a recon has to be honest and accurate and based on data held about you and your account, including all the terms from inception (when you took out the loan). For that reason, there's no way Cabot could whip one up.

                        Good to know!

                        Only the original creditor could reconstitute an agreement from their own data sources, although you are right about the fact there's no need for a signature.

                        Question: Could the reconstituted agreement formed for the OC's own data sources be used by a DCA after asking for an agreement due to a CCA enacted by a debtor, or even me?

                        I now recall reading something about these NRAM loans that were made so as to be unregulated due to the amount of credit being just over the threshold, I have to think where I saw that.

                        I do hope that isn't the case, I think I've read that any loan 25k and below is regulated. I only remember, because I had a mental phew! at the time I read it.


                        A way, although possibly not a quick one, as Cabot would have to go back to NRAM who may or may not be able to find something...

                        My thinking is, that if it is not regulated, Cabot will inform me pronto and not have to go back to NRAM, assuming they have that limited information. Assuming they don't know, why would they buy it if they don't know what they're buying? Bulk buying? What a strange way to do 'business'"!

                        Thank you for all your replies to date and your time and effort in replying.

                        SoH

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

                          FP,

                          I've found the link to the NRAM loans: http://www.n-ram.co.uk/loans/cca-loans

                          Exactly the link I read, I would never have found it again. You're good! :tinysmile_grin_t:

                          Yes, Marlin bought a shedload of NRAM loans so they probably got transferred to that branch of Cabot rather than the other one.

                          Your emote says it all... they love to play hardball and actually seem to pride themselves on that fact.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

                            Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
                            Question: Could the reconstituted agreement formed for the OC's own data sources be used by a DCA after asking for an agreement due to a CCA enacted by a debtor, or even me?
                            Yes, if you send Cabot a CCA request they'll have to go back to NRAM who will do a bit of digging to see what they can come up with, if they can't find an actual copy of your agreement, they could reconstitute one, however, it would still have to contain the terms that were applicable to your loan at the time you took it out as well as your details at that time, which is where a lot of recons fall down. They'd then send it over to Cabot. However, as they've sold the account a few years ago, they'll probably be in no immediate hurry to dig up the details. :thumb:
                            Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
                            I do hope that isn't the case, I think I've read that any loan 25k and below is regulated. I only remember, because I had a mental phew! at the time I read it.
                            I think there were instances where they'd made the loans go just over the £25k threshold, but if it was exactly that amount is should be regulated. That restriction was lifted in 2008.
                            Originally posted by SlieightofHand View Post
                            My thinking is, that if it is not regulated, Cabot will inform me pronto and not have to go back to NRAM, assuming they have that limited information. Assuming they don't know, why would they buy it if they don't know what they're buying? Bulk buying? What a strange way to do 'business'"!
                            They probably won't know themselves. Yes, they do buy in bulk and pay peanuts for the debts.

                            You can tell how little many debt purchasers know about the accounts they buy when they issue a claim for an overdraft and still put on the particulars of claim that it was an account regulated by the CCA! :lol:

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Cabot (Marlin) CCA, CPUTR and SARs, which if any (or all) can short circuit a CCJ

                              It is a fact that debt is sold in large portfolios and with the absolute minimum of data
                              leading to debt purchasers initiating claims without having any documents to prove
                              their claim.
                              The Cabot " companies" are some of the worst for bending the rule and making up
                              arbitrary timescales to suit themselves.

                              I would encourage everyone who has anything regarding Cabot's conduct of a claim
                              to report it to the FCA headed " For Information on the Conduct of Cabot stating which
                              one of the Cabot trading names os involved.

                              nem

                              Comment

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