Pursued at home for closed company speeding fine?

[mommus]

Hello everyone,

A relative of mine ran a building company (the company director) until a year or so ago.

A number of employees used a van registered to the company, one of whom was caught speeding and a ticket resulted. The company director didn't know who was driving it at the time and the possible divers were understandably shy about coming forward.

The court/police initially attempted to pursue the director and to add points to his licence, though it was subsequently accepted that he was not driving.

The company was then wound up and it wasn't making any money.

Since the company was wound up, there appears to have been some court action regarding the unpaid speeding fine and court bailiffs have appeared at the ex-director's house, claiming that it is the registered address of the (now closed) business.

He managed to fob them off for a day or two, but they said that next time they'd bring a locksmith and the police along to sieze goods.

Is this legal? The company no longer trades then can they still pursue a director for a company-related fine? People close companies down all the time oweing contrators money and they aren;t allowed to pursue the directors at the home addresses.

any help greatly appreciated

[R0b]

Re: Pursued at home for closed company speeding fine?

if the company is a limited company then the simple answer should be no. A company that has dissolved and has debts cannot be enforced against a director or directors of the company unless there is very specific reasons. The courts are very reluctant to place liability on directors unless of course there is some kind of fraud or sham going on, but judging from what you've said I don't think so.

The director may wish to inquire to the court about the court hearing and try to get a copy. If court action was taken at the registered address where the director lives then surely he would have received some paperwork?

If the action is definitely against the company and the bailiffs have said that they would bring a locksmith and seize goods then they could be treading on ice as firstly it would be trespassing secondly criminal/civil damage and also loss of goods.

Again it all depends on the judgment of what the court has said but in the majority of circumstances where a company is dissolved, you cannot enforce the debts against a director. The company would also have to be restored to the register which also involves a fair bit of money too.

Something just doesn't add up if court action was taken after the company was dissolved.

[wales01man]

Re: Pursued at home for closed company speeding fine?

If its a speeding fine it must be against a Driver not the company are they sure that its a speeding fine

[des8]

Re: Pursued at home for closed company speeding fine?

the fine could be for failure to provide driver details as per Sec 172(3) of RTA 1988

If the fine was issued before the winding up, it should have been dealt with at that time.
If issued afterwards I don't see how it can now be collected.
Others might know!

[R0b]

Re: Pursued at home for closed company speeding fine?

Adding to des8, I believe a company secretary / driver can be prosecuted for failure to provide driver details as above.

However there is a defence to that under that section in paragraph 4. If you could not reasonable provide the details of the driver and persuade the court you carried out all due diligence. So for this to happen I would probably ask for any photographic evidence to see whether you can identify the driver (showing you are at least attempting to identify the driver) you could also ask other drivers whether they recall who drove that day and take names/addresses (Also put this in the letter) of those you spoken to and if you still have not able to identify that I would simply state that in a letter to the police. You wi have done all you reasonably can and then rely on 172 (4) of the act.

P.s There's no statutory duty to identify the driver (not from what I've read of the act) and if the police say they do is ask them to point it out :-)

[wales01man]

Re: Pursued at home for closed company speeding fine?

Plenty of people have been convicted and fined for failing to identify the driver!

[mystery1]

Re: Pursued at home for closed company speeding fine?

Plenty of people have been convicted and fined for failing to identify the driver!

There is no doubt in my mind that you are correct and that the registered keeper, whoever that is, has been found guilty of failure to furnish.

As to the question of of being chased, i'd assume if it was a company debt that it'd be the company or liquidator that should be chased.

M1

[mommus]

Re: Pursued at home for closed company speeding fine?

thanks for the help everyone.

I've discussed the issue further and it appears there are a few issues I wasn't aware of.

It does seem like a fine for failure to furnish after a speeding fine, for a van owned by the company. The company has not actually been wound up but is in liquidation.

A letter was received at the registered address notifying of the intention to take it to court (prior to the company entering liquidation) but no subsequent information was sent, so the court date was missed.

The collectors were court bailiffs who refused to show the court order while at the door, although it is understood that the court order/fine was in the name of the company, not the director or secretary.

It would seem from all your comments that bailiffs cannot force entry and/or seize goods for a private house or target an individual if the order only has the company name on it?

[R0b]

Re: Pursued at home for closed company speeding fine?

Suppose the question of whether the company's registered address is the address of the private home. If it is, then I would imagine that you could argue the company is not linked to this address and the production of a land registry title showing ownership of the land is not in the name of the company should be enough to prevent them from seizing any goods. If the company doesn't own the house or land itself then you could have arguments to claim that the bailiffs are trespassing, and in that instance police could remove them from the land. Either way the bailiffs should be showing some form of ID if they are indeed bailiffs and should also be showing the court order to you. IF they don't then I would be wary of them coming anywhere near your doors.

If no paperwork was received then an alternative option is to apply to set aside the judgment, on the basis there is a reasonable defence (as i referred to in my above post re s.4). If successful then this would invalidate the court order the bailiffs have.

[wales01man]

Re: Pursued at home for closed company speeding fine?

Is it possible to contact the Court for the facts behind the conviction.

Who or what company was fined?

Were points added to any ones driving licence ?

knowing the full facts would enable the OP to get more help I think at the moment they have very little info to hand