Bryan carter/Lowell for Argos debt

[gathering]

Hello everyone,

Please could someone help me, I would really appreciate a little help or guidance with my problem. Unfortunately I have a quite a bit of debt from a failed marriage and the aftermath of separation and losing the marital home. I did pay the debts originally for a while until I really couldn't cope by borrowing from Paul to pay Peter, at that point I seeked advice which lead me to agree small token offers to all my debtors. This included sending out declarations of earnings and financial comittments etc. Again I paid these for a couple of years ...unfortunately my circumstances changed again in the end of 2011 and I am a little ashamed to say i went dark on all my debtors. Needless to say although no payments have be made since Nov 2011 to any of them, they all hound me with texts, calls and letters. It didn't take them long to find my new address.

In may of this year Bryan carter and lowell shifted up a gear and sent me a before court action letter, which shook me up so...Using the excellent advice and templates from this forum I successfully sent a cca and cpr to both Carter and Lowell, which lead to a letter from Carter saying the account was on hold until the situation was clarified.

10 weeks later I have just received 2 scanned pages which appear to be my original signed application/agreement
The agreement was signed April 2008 but I last made a payment in Nov 2011, so it's not statute barred.

I have a few questions, if you could be so kind to answer please....

1. The forms do have my signature and vaguely I remember filling it out...this I am not disputing at this point, the forms are computer filled with some of my details blanked out I.e. bank details.

I take it that argos origally computerised the form???? and my bank details were blanked for confidentially? ??

Does this matter?

2. I was wondering if anyone could confirm that the prescribed terms and conditions are all here? For example I read on this forum that the agreement should have the credit limit as well?? Is this right? As this doesn't.

3. Also highlighted on the forms are the page numbers, one of the pages are missing?

4. It looks to me as though I have no choice but to enter a repayment offer but worry this will alert all my other debtors to a payment and make them all go for my throat, as it were. All my other debts were signed up for in 2006 or earlier but we're all last paid something in Nov 2011.

I will follow this post with another post with just the 2 forms and the letter accompanying them from Carter.

Many thanks for your help in advance.

Edit. Forms attached/linked

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B62...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B62...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B62...ew?usp=sharing

Gathering

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan carter/Lowell for Argos debt

Hi and welcome aboard

I can't tell you whether you should pay them or not, :decision: Lowell probably bought this debt for £10 and are trying to get over £300 out of you! :rant: :rant: :rant:

I can, however tell you that the bit of legislation that prevented a court from enforcing a debt unless there had been a proper agreement containing all the prescribed terms was repealed with effect from April 2007. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: That means that, for agreements entered into after that time, the court would have discretion to enforce them even if any terms were missing. :mmph:

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

If you look at the original (enacted version of the CCA it will be here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...on/127/enacted

If you look at the current version of the CCA it's gone: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/127 :mmph:

In view of your question regarding prescribed terms I thought I'd just get this out of the way before we get into the fine detail.

[gathering]

Re: Bryan carter/Lowell for Argos debt

Hello FlamingParrot,

Thank you for your quick reply. Your help is really appreciated. Sigh.. could they have really bought it for only £10 ? That makes me sad.

So as they do have an agreement and it was started after 2007, it would appear that I probably have no choice but to enter into a repayment offer with lowell as although I have defaults on my credit file, i really don't want to end up with a CCJ.

I suppose at this point my main concern is that my other debtors will get wind of me making payments to 1 debt with no payment to the others. Thus making them come after me with full force. This debt is about £360 and is relatively low as my other 4 debts clock up to about 12k including 2k from an overdraft facility.

All these additional debts were started between 2002 - 2006 with the bank account running from 95 - 06. So in theory they might not have my original agreement and it might be easier to defend if they do have some part of it ????

I wonder if you could tell me what my debtors can see from my credit file I.e. will they see payments to other debts ???

Thanks again.

Gathering

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan carter/Lowell for Argos debt

Hello FlamingParrot,

Thank you for your quick reply. Your help is really appreciated. Sigh.. could they have really bought it for only £10 ? That makes me sad.

Someone here sent a SAR and got something that made reference to £10 being paid for their debt.

So as they do have an agreement and it was started after 2007, it would appear that I probably have no choice but to enter into a repayment offer with lowell as although I have defaults on my credit file, i really don't want to end up with a CCJ.

I can't tell you whether you should enter into a repayment offer as that's your decision, :decision: however, if they were to issue a claim there is always the possibility of settling it via a Tomlin order that stays proceedings as long as you keep up the agreed repayments.

I suppose at this point my main concern is that my other debtors will get wind of me making payments to 1 debt with no payment to the others. Thus making them come after me with full force.

I don't think that will be the case.

This debt is about £360 and is relatively low as my other 4 debts clock up to about 12k including 2k from an overdraft facility.

All these additional debts were started between 2002 - 2006

Those would be subject to the provisions of s.127(3) as above and being older, it may be harder for them to obtain your agreement. ray:

with the bank account running from 95 - 06. So in theory they might not have my original agreement and it might be easier to defend if they do have some part of it ????

If there were no payments into the account since 2006, I'd say it should be statute barred. Overdrafts are a bit tricky because they have no set repayment dates, so the clock starts to run from when the bank sends a final demand recalling the O/D, however, I'd have thought the wouldn't have waited three years to recall a £2k O/D. :grin:

I wonder if you could tell me what my debtors can see from my credit file I.e. will they see payments to other debts ???

Once an account is defaulted, payment arrangements are not recorded, it would only show if the default was paid off (partially or totally satisfied). Arrangements to pay are shown when you arrange reduced payments with the lender for a short time.

[gathering]

Re: Bryan carter/Lowell for Argos debt

Hello,

Thanks for all the information

Having read all your advice, it appears as though you think its an option to hold out a littlw longer.....So let's say I don't make a repayment offer, what then? They say I need to reply by Sept. 8th, what if I send nothing? And see what happens then ..... or do I reply with something along the lines of I won't pay.

What if they then send me a court claim, how would I go about defending myself if they have all the right paperwork?

Thanks in advance

Gathering

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan carter/Lowell for Argos debt

Having read all your advice, it appears as though you think its an option to hold out a little longer.....

That is always an option when you are not paying, it's a bit more difficult if you've been making payments, to suddenly stop.

So let's say I don't make a repayment offer, what then? They say I need to reply by Sept. 8th, what if I send nothing?

There's no law that states you have to obey their deadlines. :nono:

And see what happens then ..... or do I reply with something along the lines of I won't pay.

I can't see that being any better than not replying if you see what I mean. :mmph: Just for reference, how long has it been since you last made a payment? If it's been several years, you don't want to write anything that could acknowledge the debt. :scared:

What if they then send me a court claim, how would I go about defending myself if they have all the right paperwork?

As per my post above, it is possible to settle via a Tomlin order if it came to that but we are still a long way. :thumb:

[gathering]

Re: Bryan carter/Lowell for Argos debt

Hello again FlamingParrot,

I haven't made a payment since November 2011, at that time I was only making token payments of £5 per month and they had frozen the interest. It has since been sold to Lowell.

I haven't entered any talks or correspondence, since I stopped paying. Then I received a letter from B Carter representin Lowell, with the letter of intent which prompted me to action. So i have only sent two letters, one to B Carter and one to Lowell, from templates asking for proof (signed agreement etc). On both I added a line saying something along the lines of 'this does not constitute acknowledgement of this debt'.


Like you said, there is no law and the letter accompanying the agreement states, we expect you to reply by 8th September otherwise collection activities 'may' resume...

So I can choose to ignore this current letter until their next...I hadn't considered ignoring this because I have reluctantly started engaging with them.

Regarding the tomlin order, if I get to the court claim process, is the tomlin order a step in the process and/or something I can instigate? And if so, do they have to accept it?

It's so good to be able to speak on this forum as it stops me from panicking.

Gathering

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan carter/Lowell for Argos debt

Hello again FlamingParrot,

I haven't made a payment since November 2011, at that time I was only making token payments of £5 per month and they had frozen the interest. It has since been sold to Lowell.
I haven't entered any talks or correspondence, since I stopped paying. Then I received a letter from B Carter representin Lowell, with the letter of intent which prompted me to action. So i have only sent two letters, one to B Carter and one to Lowell, from templates asking for proof (signed agreement etc). On both I added a line saying something along the lines of 'this does not constitute acknowledgement of this debt'.

in that case, you should probably avoid anything that would acknowledge the debt as that would mean losing the past four years. :sad:

Regarding the tomlin order, if I get to the court claim process, is the tomlin order a step in the process and/or something I can instigate? And if so, do they have to accept it?

It's so good to be able to speak on this forum as it stops me from panicking.

Gathering

A Tomlin order would stay proceedings as long as you keep making the agreed payments, most creditors would accept a reasonable offer back by an income and expenditure statement but it would only be used as a last resort if there was no change of successfully defending the claim.

Don't panic! There's always a solution! :thumb: