Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

[Chris1983]

Hi, I'm new to the site and hoping that someone will be able to advise me about a letter that was underhandedly given to me today in regards to an old debt with Welcome Finance.

A chap in plain clothes turned up at my parents house this evening with a package in his hand and asked for me, when my Dad told him that I hadn't lived there for years the delivery man said he was delivering for Amazon and only had a 15 minute delivery slot, my dad gave him my address and away he went. 10 minutes later the guy turned up at my door with a package and asked me to sign for it, after I signed he gave me a letter he had concealed underneath it and scurried back up the drive with the package in his hands. Sneaky!

I have received a 'Order to attend court for questioning' letter in regards to a debt with Welcome Finance from around 2011, the original loan was for £2000 and I made monthly payments of £150 for several months until I found out that £50 of it was for PPI that I had never been informed about or needed. When I found out about the PPI I contacted their local office and explained I was still happy to pay £150 per month but I wanted all of it to go against the loan itself and that I wanted the PPI removing from my account, they said that as long as I put that in writing within 30 days then the PPI would be removed and all would be well. As at the time I only lived 5 minutes away from their local office I hand delivered the letter I had typed up stating that I did not want the PPI, a lady in the office took my letter and I thought that would be the end of it.

Another month passed and another payment was made so I decided to contact the office to make sure the PPI had indeed been removed from my account, I was told that no letter was received and now the time had passed for me to contest it, I would have to pay the £50 per month for the insurance despite never been told about it in the first place. Annoyed at this I told them that no further payments would be made to them until the PPI was removed and I removed the direct debit from my bank account.

Around a month later a debt collection agency phoned me (can't remember which one) and I explained to them what had happened and that I would happily continue to make payments if the unfair PPI was removed from my account, the lady said she would contact Welcome Finance and get back to me which she did 2 days later stating that Welcome had said they would not remove the PPI under any circumstances. I told her that I would not be making any payments to the account unless it was removed and that was the last I ever heard about it.

The letter I received today states that an order or judgement was given on the 15th February 2013 by the County Court Business Centre but this is the first I've heard anything from Welcome since 2011, I've moved house twice since 2011 so unsure whether something was dropped through the letter box at an old address. Wouldn't you have to sign for something like this though?

The letter states that I must attend the hearing scheduled for September or I will be 'in contempt of court' and could be sent to prison. It is also asking for a large amount of financial documentation, some of which I can't provide. Is this documentation a legal requirement for the hearing?


I currently live in a rented property with my wife, the tenancy is in her name only and I was made redundant from my job several weeks ago so have no income. I also don't claim any kind of benefits and have no assets of any kind so what can they realistically do? Is my partner liable for the debt or can they go down the route of bankrupting me?

The debt with £50 court costs added is now standing at £5125.25 and I currently have no means of paying it off.


Any help is much appreciated



Chris

[seduraed]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

Sneaky trick that from welcome. ok to start your wife is not liable for your debts unless she has signed the forms. I think you need to go to court to explain the situation . When you handed the letter in at the Welcome office did you by any chance get a receipt. The proper procedure for hand delivered letters was to issue a reciept and i always used to send to send an acknowledgement a few days later . You need beter advice than I can give so hang on and other knowledgable beagles will be along shortly.

[nemesis45]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

Hi Welcome to LB,
Most importantly you Must attend the court for this, it is contempt of court not to do so.

This is not a hearing before a judge, an authorised officer of the court will be looking at
what means you have to pay the debt, you need a income & expenditure statement regarding
your total income/benefits and all outgoings both priority and non priority commitments.

Your statement will be taken under oath, that's the most formal part of the process. It is necessary for you to provide all the information you can on your finances the more detail the better.
The court office will lead you through questions the claimant wants answered it's an interview rather than a court hearing in actuality.
No your partner cannot be held responsible in any way for this debt.

As you have no realisable assets Bankruptcy is not an option.

I seems to me that the claimant (who is this please?) has little/no prospect
of recovering any money at present.

( as to the service of the order it is a total abuse of process, you can inquire at the court about making a complaint regarding this.
nem

[Chris1983]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

Sneaky trick that from welcome. ok to start your wife is not liable for your debts unless she has signed the forms. I think you need to go to court to explain the situation . When you handed the letter in at the Welcome office did you by any chance get a receipt. The proper procedure for hand delivered letters was to issue a reciept and i always used to send to send an acknowledgement a few days later . You need beter advice than I can give so hang on and other knowledgable beagles will be along shortly.

Thank you for your reply, sadly no, I didn't get a receipt when I hand delivered the letter, at the time I didn't think anything of it and assumed the PPI would have been removed without any fuss. Couldn't have been any more wrong!

Hi Welcome to LB,
Most importantly you Must attend the court for this, it is contempt of court not to do so.

This is not a hearing before a judge, an authorised officer of the court will be looking at
what means you have to pay the debt, you need a income & expenditure statement regarding
your total income/benefits and all outgoings both priority and non priority commitments.

Your statement will be taken under oath, that's the most formal part of the process. It is necessary for you to provide all the information you can on your finances the more detail the better.
The court office will lead you through questions the claimant wants answered it's an interview rather than a court hearing in actuality.
No your partner cannot be held responsible in any way for this debt.

As you have no realisable assets Bankruptcy is not an option.

I seems to me that the claimant (who is this please?) has little/no prospect
of recovering any money at present.

( as to the service of the order it is a total abuse of process, you can inquire at the court about making a complaint regarding this.
nem

Thank you for your reply also, I do indeed intend to make a formal complaint about how the letter delivery was handled, my Dad is also contacting Amazon to inform them that court officials are impersonating their drivers as means to deliver their letters. Probably won't make a difference but doesn't hurt to make the call.

The claimant is Welcome Finance's main branch at Peterborough, I've never spoke to anyone there before, all my dealings were through my local branch at Mansfield.

Could you elaborate on what they can do if I cannot afford to make any payments please? I'm assuming that they will want whatever they can get to put towards the outstanding account.

Also, although the debt was never fully payed would it be a possibility to put in a PPI claim and offset that against the debt? Can you only claim what you physically payed or does the PPI claim cover the entirety of the loan?


Thank you


Chris

[Chris1983]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

Sorry, forgot to mention, it looks like I was wrong about the dates. I'm looking into it for definite now but it looks like I took the loan out in 2008 with the last payment made to the account sometime in the first quarter of 2009. If this is the case would the debt not be statute barred now?

I know some kind of proceeding went through in February 2013 but I wasn't aware of it so I'm assuming that wouldn't be classed as acknowledging the debt?


Thank you


Chris

[nemesis45]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

OK I'm away from home this evening I see what I can come up with in the morning.

nem

[seduraed]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

Thank you for your reply, sadly no, I didn't get a receipt when I hand delivered the letter, at the time I didn't think anything of it and assumed the PPI would have been removed without any fuss. Couldn't have been any more wrong!




Thank you for your reply also, I do indeed intend to make a formal complaint about how the letter delivery was handled, my Dad is also contacting Amazon to inform them that court officials are impersonating their drivers as means to deliver their letters. Probably won't make a difference but doesn't hurt to make the call.

The claimant is Welcome Finance's main branch at Peterborough, I've never spoke to anyone there before, all my dealings were through my local branch at Mansfield.

Could you elaborate on what they can do if I cannot afford to make any payments please? I'm assuming that they will want whatever they can get to put towards the outstanding account.

Also, although the debt was never fully payed would it be a possibility to put in a PPI claim and offset that against the debt? Can you only claim what you physically payed or does the PPI claim cover the entirety of the loan?


Thank you


Chris

PPI used to be integral to Welcome loans ans if it was removed then the customer would be charged a higher interest rate to cover the lost profits from the commission . A common Welcome trick to ensure "affordability" was to write the loan for four years and the PPI for three .

It's probable that the mansfield branch has been closed and the accounts transferred to Peterborough.

[Chris1983]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

OK I'm away from home this evening I see what I can come up with in the morning.



nem

Thank you, its much appreciated

PPI used to be integral to Welcome loans ans if it was removed then the customer would be charged a higher interest rate to cover the lost profits from the commission . A common Welcome trick to ensure "affordability" was to write the loan for four years and the PPI for three .

It's probable that the mansfield branch has been closed and the accounts transferred to Peterborough.

Could well be, had a quick look online and there doesn't seem to be much showing for Mansfield, there's a listing with a number but that looks out of date.

[Chris1983]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

So I've looked into it a little further and it seems I took the loan out at the end of 2007 with the last payment being made in 2008, I've pulled up my credit files with both Experian and Equifax but there's no mention of it in either of them, I'm assuming that's because its been dead for more than 6 years now. Assuming that the judgement made by the County Court Business Centre in 2013 doesn't count as I wasn't aware of it would that not make the debt statute barred now?


Thanks

[seduraed]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

The judgement made in 2013 counts unless you can get it set aside on the grounds that you didn't recieve the paperwork. You can't have 2 judgements for the same debt.

[Chris1983]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

The judgement made in 2013 counts unless you can get it set aside on the grounds that you didn't recieve the paperwork. You can't have 2 judgements for the same debt.

Thanks for the reply, how would I go about having it set aside? Do I need to contact the court before the questioning date?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

Sorry, forgot to mention, it looks like I was wrong about the dates. I'm looking into it for definite now but it looks like I took the loan out in 2008 with the last payment made to the account sometime in the first quarter of 2009. If this is the case would the debt not be statute barred now?

It would have been if proceedings had not been issued.

I know some kind of proceeding went through in February 2013 but I wasn't aware of it so I'm assuming that wouldn't be classed as acknowledging the debt?

It was a lot more than that, they obtained judgment. Did you receive the claim form? Have you moved in the last 6 years?

The letter states that I must attend the hearing scheduled for September or I will be 'in contempt of court' and could be sent to prison. It is also asking for a large amount of financial documentation, some of which I can't provide. Is this documentation a legal requirement for the hearing?

I currently live in a rented property with my wife, the tenancy is in her name only and I was made redundant from my job several weeks ago so have no income. I also don't claim any kind of benefits and have no assets of any kind so what can they realistically do? Is my partner liable for the debt or can they go down the route of bankrupting me?

The reason for all this is that Welcome obtained default judgment against you and, two years later, you've not made any payments, so they are looking to enforce the judgment. The court has the right to ask for your financial information and the threat of imprisonment is not for the debt but for failing to attend the hearing. In reality though if you didn't attend, you'd be more likely to be arrested and forcibly taken to court for questioning rather than sending you to jail for any period of time, the intention is to make you go to court and explain your financial circumstances.

If the debt was in your sole name your partner is not liable for it. Bankruptcy is one way of enforcing a judgment but if they had that route in mind they would have served you with a statutory demand instead of an order to go to court for questioning.

The debt with £50 court costs added is now standing at £5125.25 and I currently have no means of paying it off.

That's the whole point of the questioning and the request for financial information, to find out about your circumstances. They have no idea whether you have any assets, what sort of income you have, etc. Even a court can't make you pay what you haven't got, but you need to tell them that you haven't got the means to pay.

So I've looked into it a little further and it seems I took the loan out at the end of 2007 with the last payment being made in 2008, I've pulled up my credit files with both Experian and Equifax but there's no mention of it in either of them, I'm assuming that's because its been dead for more than 6 years now. Assuming that the judgement made by the County Court Business Centre in 2013 doesn't count as I wasn't aware of it would that not make the debt statute barred now?

The judgment counts even if you were not aware of it.

Thanks for the reply, how would I go about having it set aside? Do I need to contact the court before the questioning date?

You may be able to apply for set aside on the basis that you did no receive the claim, however, you'd also need a defence. It doesn't look like the debt would have been SBd when the claim was issued in 2013 if last payment was made in 2008. You may have other reasons to dispute the account though.

The first step is usually to write to the judgment creditor asking them to consent to the set aside in order to avoid further costs and hassle. If they refuse, below are some useful links with regards to applying for set aside:

• http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ants-in-Person
• http://legalbeagles.info/library/how...-judgment-ccj/
• http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...lication-notes

[Chris1983]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

Thanks for your reply

Yes, I've moved house a couple of times since then, I'm guessing whatever paperwork was sent in regards of the 2013 proceedings were sent to a previous address, it seems a little unfair for a judgement to have been made without my knowledge or opportunity to defend myself.

So on the basis that it won't be set aside and I appear for the hearing in September what can they do to enforce the payments if I have no means to do so? I have no assets and everything house related bar a couple of the utility bills are in my wife's name.


Cheers

[nemesis45]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

Hi, just for clarification please, it the order for questioning on behalf of Welcome's administrators?

When all the branches were closed there was a great deal of talk of " missing/destroyed" paper work, many of the " rewritten" agreements were found to be unsigned and the borrower had never seen the rewritten agreement these were done in house
when problems occurred and certainly I think when PPI was cancelled.

You complain to Welcome about the service of the order, they are ultimately responsible for
the contact of their agent.

nem

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sneakily handed questioning order, Welcome Finance

Thanks for your reply

Yes, I've moved house a couple of times since then, I'm guessing whatever paperwork was sent in regards of the 2013 proceedings were sent to a previous address, it seems a little unfair for a judgement to have been made without my knowledge or opportunity to defend myself.

Yes, it is very unfair, the reason the system allows default judgments is because otherwise, people would try to avoid CCJs by not responding, pretending not to have received the papers or even returning them as unknown.

So on the basis that it won't be set aside

Although the court would expect you to act promptly and apply for set aside shortly after the judgment was made, you couldn't have done so without being aware of the judgment.

and I appear for the hearing in September what can they do to enforce the payments if I have no means to do so? I have no assets and everything house related bar a couple of the utility bills are in my wife's name.

Not much, however, they don't know that you haven't got means yet, hence the reason for questioning. Many people have CCJs and pay just a nominal amount every month, as little as £1 a month in some cases, however, they would have provided their financial details to the court either at the time the judgment was made or, like yourself, later on. The only reason they are questioning you is because you have not provided any information about your finances, obviously because you were not aware of the CCJ.