Reclaim HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

[ketsudo]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

well yes, I have nothing, but don't want to be made bankrupt on top of everything else! They won't sue anyway, because they know they will lose, for various reasons, and they wouldn't risk the publicity, but i haven't got the energy to deal with being sued.

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

OK I'll put something together this week. One problem with FOS - if the debtor has paid the debt off in full the bank will repay. If there is still an outstanding balance on the account FOS allows the bank to knock it off the balance. This is wrong and I asked them to escalate it to an Ombudsman but he also agreed with the adjudicator. I advised people to reject the Ombudsmans ruling (they still got the charge knocked off) so that they could go to court if the wished.

Thank you.

I'm afraid I'll disagree with you on that a bit, as I do on reclaiming PPI and other charges, for it to be knocked off the debt is how it should be as it hasn't been paid, so long as the refund includes any additional interest that may have acrrued because of that sum - the reclaim is to put people back into the position they would have been had the charge never been applied. But agree it should be in the guide that it won't necessarily be a cash windfall if the debt is still outstanding and will just be removed from the debt.

There may well be cases where if the collection charge is removed it ends their debt (hurrah!), and there may be some cases where had the collection charge not have been placed the debt would have been paid off without court action/charging orders being needed, and so on, these consequences can be looked at individually.

[ketsudo]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

OK let's work together. You're right that we don't necessarily need the confidential stuff but if a part-paid claimant wants to run the set-off argument then it would be needed. Best cause of action is unfair relationship s140 CCA. The charges are manifestly unfair because they breach OFT guidelines, which the court will look at to establish why it's unfair. Or a claim through Ombudsman, with the proviso I've mentioned.

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

Brilliant, I'm so glad we stuck it out and got on the same page with this

Completely agree with the unfair relationship angle too.

Another bit we need to have a look at (and I don't know if you already have) is the CRA reporting of the defaulted debts - are the collection charge amounts included in the amounts reported to the CRA's and can we get those revoked as well.

Have you done any work with having the charges refunded where they have been paid through a CCJ ?

[ketsudo]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

well, we'll have to disagree! I have done a lot of research. Yes, I know the Ombudsman stance is to put people in the position they would have been in (I've done a lot of PPI too at solicitors in Brighton) - but that means, no judgment, no charging order, no attachment order etc. Also the ombudsman allows the bank to credit the exact amount which is also wrong. The charge is added to the letter before action. Interest is charged on it until they sue so in some cases the true amount that should be repaid could be hundreds of pounds more. I haven't found the Ombudsman very good with this sort of thing, which is why, again, I think group action in the High Court is a better policy.

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

Yes I agree but we have to start somewhere, just as the PPI reclaims did, and the bank charges reclaims did. Are you in Brighton then?

[ketsudo]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

Yes, all the charges I've had refunded were on judgments (only 2 to be honest, because I couldn't reach people because the MoJ wouldn't give me judgment details). I have also recovered money from American Express, who were also doing it. Did you know that? I believe it is far more widespread than we know about, and I had always wanted to expand my research to see how many others were doing it. I'm quite sure Restons and Weightmans are still doing it for other clients besides HFC.

[ketsudo]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

I'm in Hastings

[ketsudo]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

I've never done anything re CRA - the debt's the debt, I can't see why the charge would allow you remove a default, unless the mean the amount of default should be amended?

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

I've never done anything re CRA - the debt's the debt, I can't see why the charge would allow you remove a default, unless the mean the amount of default should be amended?

Yes, if it would make a difference to people (not entirely sure it would) just a thought.

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

Yes, all the charges I've had refunded were on judgments (only 2 to be honest, because I couldn't reach people because the MoJ wouldn't give me judgment details). I have also recovered money from American Express, who were also doing it. Did you know that? I believe it is far more widespread than we know about, and I had always wanted to expand my research to see how many others were doing it. I'm quite sure Restons and Weightmans are still doing it for other clients besides HFC.

So on judgments did you just get the refund direct from HFC and the CCJ remains as is ? Would people need to go to court to have the charge taken off the CCJ / charging order or would HFC simply refund them that amount in cash and leave the CCJ and Charging order alone ?

I'm pretty sure people would be happy to continue with the CCJ as is, and have a lump sum back (which they could use to pay off some of the debt under the CCJ if they so choose) rather than go through applications to court to have the CCJ redetermined again.

[ketsudo]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

Yes, they just sent a cheque and kept the CCJ/CO - pre-FOS I wrote to the bank threatening to go to court to set aside the judgment, but it didn't move them, so went to FOS in the end because free. But, in my view ALL judgments on behalf of HFC prior to 2010 are defective because they include the charge (apart from when they were removed, rarely) and in theory all judgments could be set aside and re-written, although a pointless exercise. I'm sure that's why MoJ refused me access to judgments - they thought the courts would be clogged with set aside applications. They thought I was a credit repair company, which, as you know, I'm not.

[ketsudo]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

This is their letter

[EXC]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

If there was a groundswell of claimants a group action could be launched at no cost to claimants.

I think you're approaching this the wrong way. A serious attempt at a group action firstly requires a sound legal case and a specialist law firm big enough to back it. The groundswell of claimants comes as a result, not the other way round.

If I were you I would speak to someone like Ingrid Gubbay.

http://www.hausfeldllp.com/pages/eur.../ingrid_gubbay

As Amethyst will attest to we worked with Hausfeld on a potential group action for consequential damages for bank charges before the Supreme Court held that they were lawful.

Publicity alone won't achieve anything meaningful.

[ketsudo]

Re: HFC / HSBC / Restons / Collection Charge

Thanks, I've spoken to Ingird Gubbay. I worked a Leigh Day & Co preparing a group action. We've got a very sound legal case, have had counsel's opinion and LD are a specialist law firm big enough to deal with it. The claim couldn't proceed because a conflict of interest arose.
Publicity is the ONLY way to reach potential claimants.