How do I stop a Family member trying to gain information from Fathers bank?

[Pezza54]

Thanks for the further information.
I expect other forum users with actual legal experience with legislation covering social care and safeguarding adults will be along shortly
I can only advise you to read the lengthy article "Safeguarding Guides" at cpdonline.co.uk

The safeguarding responsibility of a social worker does include protecting a vulnerable person from financial harm
If your BIL contacted social services about his concerns regarding missing bank statements and the possibility of missing funds then social services has a legal duty to investigate.

In my opinion transparency is the key. You should make your FIL's statements available and print out those that are accessed online. You shouldn't show your own bank statements, they are confidential

If the social worker believes your FIL does not now have the mental capacity to make important decisions and it is too late for LPA then application to the CoP may be necessary

[des8]

Good morning and sorry to read about the problems you are having.

I doubt you will receive a response from Amethyst as she has not been active on site since about June 2021, and I'm not sue I can add much to what has already been said.

Obviously the well being of your FiL is paramount and this is what the Social Services will be working towards.
They will have to listen to both you & your husband as well as brother in law and speak with your FiL before making any decisions.

You said on the one hand your FiL was developing early Alzheimers, but later give the impression he has lost capacity.
People with dementia can still retain capacity, sometimes only limited and sometimes sporadically but not completely absent.
The Mental Capacity Act 2005 main principle is an assumption that a person has capacity unless the contrary is established

Regarding the question of releasing bank statements to safeguarding, I think you are in danger of approaching the matter from a wrong angle.
Understandably you think your BiL has been able to create a version of the situation which does not align with the actuality.
However you don't know to what extent this has been taken on board by Social Services safeguarding section
Any hint of non co-operation by you will raise suspicion about the truthfulness of your narrative, and allowing them sight of bank statements is hardly
giving them a right to rummage through FiL's private life.
Surely your FiL would want you to retain control of his affairs?
If you give safeguarding reason to suspect your motives, you might find you'll be excluded

I don't think I've been much help but you might find a guide for carers issued by the Care Quality Commission useful :
https://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default...ublication.pdf

There is also the act itself, which includes explanatory notes
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/9/part/1

[Pezza54]

I meant to add that
Answers to your questions 1, 2 and 3 is yes.
A4 If you are asked about his GP's diagnosis you should be truthful. I'm just not sure how it would help you if you produce this info without being asked
A5 Yes The social worker can ask for bank statements and obtain them from the bank if necessary
A6 Yes. Explain you needed access to pay bills
A7 You could put your concerns in your letter and ask why you and your husband have not been asked to attend as you both help your FIL on a regular basis

[redrose281]

Hi Pezza54

Once again, thank you for your reply and advice, I have made an appointment for the Social Worker to come and see my husband and I after he has been to see my FIL later this week. I have also written a letter to the Social Workers head of department asking why my Husband and I haven`t been invited to FIL`s assessment . I will let you know what happens.

Thank you again, you are amazing, I don`t know what I`d do without your help.

[redrose281]

Hi des8

Thank you for your response, I`m sorry, I didn`t realise that Amethyst hasn`t been on the site for so long, I just named him/her as they`d helped me previously and got me out of a big hole.

It`s good to know the Social Worker will have to speak to myself and my Husband as well as my Brother in Law before speaking to my FIL.

Sorry for not being clear, FIL was diagnosed with early Alzheimers shortly after his stroke some years ago, but since me making this post his GP has assessed that he no longer has capacity as he has deteriorated so much in the last 12/18 months. It`s a strange disease as Mum has it too but hers isn`t progressing as quickly thankfully.

I think you are absolutely right about the bank statements and have told the Social Worker that I am more than happy to show him them.

You have been more help than you realise, thank you again.

[redrose281]

Hi everyone,

The Social Workers 'investigation ' has been ongoing for over 5 weeks now, tomorrow, he is going to assess FIL's capacity, if the Social Worker decides FIL doesn'thave capacity, (which we already know he hasnt), what happens then? With no LPOA in place, who will make decisions, (both financial and personal) re FIL? My worry is that Social Workers will be entitled to take over everything re FIL, and that makes me concerned as I don't believe anyone will give him the care he gets from us as his Family.

[des8]

someone will need to apply to become your FiL's guardian.
Generally applications are from family members, although friends or Social Services may apply

To save a lot of writing you might read the information on this link (which is posted for info and is not a recommendation)
https://www.caritaslegal.co.uk/guard...may-affect-you

[redrose281]

Hi des8

Thank you for your prompt response, that's good to know . Are Social Workers able to jump in in the interim and take over matters whilst an application is being put in place? I have this awful dread of FIL being put into one of those awful homes and us not being able to stop it, and that would just break his heart.

Thank you for the link, I will have a good read now.

[redrose281]

It is 3.12 am and one of the owners of the Care Company had need to phone us as FIL had pressed his buzzer saying someone was trying to get in his house so we had to go down and check. When we got there all was quiet and FIL was asleep so we think he'd been dreaming, he awoke when we went in so we reassured him, made him a hot chocolate and settled him back down before leaving.

When we got home, I rang the owner of the Care Company as I'd said I would to let her know all was OK and she thanked me and then asked how I was "with all that's going on", she then proceeded to tell me that she'd had to tell the two carers to back down as they were very upset as the Social Worker had interviewed them both in front of FIL and told them that my Husband and I were being investigated for Financoal abuse of FIL! I am so upset, neither my Husband or I have done anything wrong and yet this Social Worker is telling all and Sundry that we are being investigated for Financial Abuse! Surely this can't be right? He's already got FIL blocked out of his own bank account as he said he's a victim of Financial Abuse without having a bit of evidence, and now FIL is unable to pay his Care Company bills or even get money to pay for food, ! I honestly can't believe this, I feel physically sick to be accused of such horrible things, surely the Social Worker can't say these things without proof?
Please can anyone advise? Thank you.

[des8]

So sorry to hear of the current situation.

The problem is that some one has alleged that your FiL is the victim of Financial abuse, and that you and your husband are probably the perpetrators.
Social Services have to investigate, and they will do this by interviewing anyone they think might have information, without first telling the subject(s)

You need to remain calm and collect all the evidence you can to demonstrate you have acted properly throughout the time you have been caring for your FiL.
Co-operate with the social workers.


As an aside I have seen similar investigation go ahead where a husband was accused of physical abuse of his wife for whom he cared.
The investigation continued even tho' the wife denied any abuse, until SS were finally convinced all was well.
The problem being that Social Workers are blamed if the vulnerable are harmed if they haven't carried out an in depth investigation, but on the other hand are vilified if they carry out an investigation when despite reports to the contrary there is no abuse.

[redrose281]

Hi des8 for your response and advice, I have taken it all on board.

Since my last posting, things have changed somewhat in that the Social Worker dealing with FIL's case has "taken early retirement " with immediate effect, and his boss has been "moved to another Dept" with immediate effect also.

Apparently FIL has now been given his own Social Worker and her and her boss are coming out to see myself and my Husband this week to apologise for the way things have been handled by the previous SW and for the way we have been treated as basically the previous SW told multiple people that my Husband and I had been accused of financially abusing my FIL, to such an extent that people have definitely been treating us differently based upon the accusations that he levelled at us without a scrap of evidence. It has all been so upsetting and stressful, I feel like everyone is looking at us as if we are thieves capable of stealing from an old man, it's awful, I'm constantly in tears and it is in my mind every minute of every day, I really feel like just walking away from it all now and letting others deal with FIL's care and needs. I'm really not sure what good it will do with these SW's coming out this week as the damage to mine and my Husbands reputation has already been done!

[des8]

Well at least there has been progress and I trust your meeting with the SWs will put your mind to rest that your FIL will receive the care he needs.

Regarding the slur on your reputation, you might be over sensitive.
In any case your real friends will not be so quick to false judgements. The corollary being those who are quick to judge are not your friends and should be ignored.
Eventually it will blow over, and I am sure you don't really want to walk away from your FIL

[redrose281]

Thank you des8, yes, I probably am being over sensitive but it's hard when you are doing your best and then you have such vile accusations levelled at you, I'm sure you can understand .

One thing that has come out of this is that a Standing Order has now been set up by the bank to make FIL's Care Cost Contribution each week, though we are currently still having to pay for all of her groceries and personal items but I'm hoping the meeting tomorrow may come up with a solution to that problem as we cannot afford to carry on doing it indefinitely as it' s like having to pay out for another mortgage .

Thank you for your kind words, they mean a lot, and you are absolutely right, there is no way we could walk away from FIL, we both love him too much.

Thank you again.

[redrose281]

Hi des8

Well we had the meeting with the SW and her boss, they have conducted their investigation and have found no evidence of financial abuse of FIL by myself or my Husband, which of course we knew they wouldn`t as we haven`t done anything wrong. However, my Husband and I have taken the decision to hand over the dealing of FIL`s financial matters to Social Services to allocate to someone else as we do not wish to be put into this awful position again, and if we aren`t dealing with his financial matters, then we can`t be accused of doing anything untoward .

We have said we will still do Dad`s shopping, the bank are paying his Care Company costs and Standing Orders etc, but this morning they have said they will not give any money for Dad`s shopping ! We are already owed almost £1000.00, and Social Services have said it could be months until the Company is put in place to deal with all of Dad`s finances, so we are just expected to keep paying out, twice weekly for FIL`s food and personal shopping, it is basically like us having to pay another mortgage and we just cannot afford to keep doing it with no end in sight! SS told us on Thursday that they would be speaking to the bank and getting the monies already owed to us, transferred to our bank account this week, but now the bank have said they won`t pay any monies out to us until the other Company take over, and then they will have to sort that out. Can anyone please tell us how we stand here, as obviously FIL needs to eat!