Lowell CCJ Advice - Help please!

[soursocrates]

Firstly don't panic,

You could write a Skeleton Argument to the Court / Judge and the Creditors Solicitors, you want to make sure you are clear and concise, so the Judge understands your position / case. You email it to the Court and the Creditors Solicitors 72 hours before the Hearing. This will help you during the Hearing.
Think on that.

Watch the following video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaQZm6IOMKQ

There are other videos to.

Hey Echat. Thanks for coming back to me! I'm feeling ok, it is nerve-racking as it is a new experience, and there's potentially a lot riding on it. But what will be will be, i just have to put my best foot forward and see what comes of it.

Thanks for sharing that video, that was surprisingly insightful in terms of the process and the level of expectations. Hopefully my hearing doesn't actually in fact take 'hours' as he mentions as I may die of angst (i joke), but will have to see. I'm kinda thankful i've only been given two weeks notice for the hearing, otherwise I would be dwelling on this every day/night leading up to it beyond just a 2 week period which would've been tough.

He has another video which talks about being concise with your arguments, which is important, i could imagine rambling in this will hurt one's case a huge amount in front of a judge. He also mentions questions that I may want to ask the claimant for cross examination, which is a good point i hadn't considered. With that in mind and your suggestion of a skeleton argument, i've put together a hopefully succinct list of my core arguments and the questions I want to put forward to the claimant:

' My core arguments

• I was unable to challenge the judgement & debt in general due to be unaware of proceedings having had not lived at address notice was given to.
• I was not able to challenge this CCJ sooner due to this judgement/CCJ not appearing on my primary credit scoring tool, clear score
• My name is not that of the debtor, and doesn’t match any legal identification or agreements that have been held for me
• If due diligence was done, it would be clear from public records that my name is ‘x’ and has never been ‘y’. And as a result, the judgment would have reflected that, if indeed, the debts were mine and in my name to begin with and not a substantial error such as a mis trace for example
• At no point have I ever been in communication with any party regarding or acknowledging this debt due to my unawareness of it.
• ‘X’ is not a name I have ever used or featured on agreements, much less as a first name. Once Lowell informed me that it appeared as a middle name on a current account associated with me, I informed the bank of this incorrect name/mistake and they changed this immediately. This name also did not appear on any online banking statements (as evidenced) to allow me to be aware of this error and

My questions to the claimant/witness

• Has this debt ever been acknowledged?
• Has due diligence been done to confirm the correct identity & association to said debt?
• If due diligence was done to confirm correct association with my identity, wouldn’t the name on the judgement be mine? Especially considering all electoral roll information, banking agreements and utilities have featured ‘y’ as my name and never ‘x’ except for one mistaken middle name association from one current account. The weighting is overwhelmingly in favour of one name.'

It would be great to hear your thoughts on my points/arguments and questions for them. Anything i've missed or should consider otherwise?

[echat11]

A Skeleton Argument has a structure / layout, so follow it as far as possible (remember the guidance in the link is actually for professionals) -

https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/re...eton-argument/

I'll go through the thread, see If I can add anything you've missed.

[soursocrates]

Hey echat - yeah, sorry, i realise that it has to be formal in its structure. I was just trying to condense all of the information in my case into these areas covering the questions for the claimant and then my own key/core points for my case/argument which i will then put into the full skeleton argument email with correct formatting. Was just talking about it with yourself in case you have any suggestions or amendments

[echat11]

1. CCJ mid 2021 - Wrong name on CCJ - You weren’t at the address when CCJ documents were sent, you had moved out 3 months earlier so couldn’t seek advice or challenge the CCJ.

1. The incorrect name only appears on one Credit Reference Agency, so there is conflicting information.

1. CCJ only appears on one Credit Reference Agency - Transunion.

1. The first name that they have on the CCJ is not present anywhere on any official documentation, i.e. such as passport, driving license etc.

1. The CCJ was lodged on the 12/07/2021, I have just checked my Transunion credit report (this is the only CRA that has the CCJ reported on it) and it reports my new/current address in the Electoral roll registration as being from 01/07/2021 which is earlier than the date the case was heard.

1. Lowell’s says ‘There is also an active current account in the name of xxx xxx xxxx, therefore, we are satisfied we are corresponding with the correct individual.’ The bank has stated that it is an error and has corrected it. You would have presented official documentation, i.e. such as passport, driving license etc. to open the account, the bank got it wrong and thus they have corrected it.

1. Make sure to attach the evidence with skeleton argument i.e. credit ref screenshot, passport information, tenancy agreements ,deposit screenshot on bank statement, council tax information, all the other documents. In terms of your change of address. You know what evidence will help your case.

[soursocrates]

1. CCJ mid 2021 - Wrong name on CCJ - You weren’t at the address when CCJ documents were sent, you had moved out 3 months earlier so couldn’t seek advice or challenge the CCJ.

1. The incorrect name only appears on one Credit Reference Agency, so there is conflicting information.

1. CCJ only appears on one Credit Reference Agency - Transunion.

1. The first name that they have on the CCJ is not present anywhere on any official documentation, i.e. such as passport, driving license etc.

1. The CCJ was lodged on the 12/07/2021, I have just checked my Transunion credit report (this is the only CRA that has the CCJ reported on it) and it reports my new/current address in the Electoral roll registration as being from 01/07/2021 which is earlier than the date the case was heard.

1. Lowell’s says ‘There is also an active current account in the name of xxx xxx xxxx, therefore, we are satisfied we are corresponding with the correct individual.’ The bank has stated that it is an error and has corrected it. You would have presented official documentation, i.e. such as passport, driving license etc. to open the account, the bank got it wrong and thus they have corrected it.

1. Make sure to attach the evidence with skeleton argument i.e. credit ref screenshot, passport information, tenancy agreements ,deposit screenshot on bank statement, council tax information, all the other documents. In terms of your change of address. You know what evidence will help your case.

Hi Echat - thanks a lot for coming back to me with these points, I have been working on my skeleton argument over the last few days and I think i have covered mostly everything.

Funnily/scarily enough, Lowell have just cc'd be in their comms to the court with their own Skeleton argument to the court featuring their evidence and their points. I have also completed my skeleton argument this evening as well. The court case is next monday, so I hope to send this argument back by tomorrow/Wednesday latest as I think they need two business days minimum as a buffer between the hearing and receipt of the bundle.

I was wondering if you wouldn't mind taking a look at lowell's skeleton argument and my own and providing any thoughts? I don't feel massively confident now, but who knows.

I've redacted names from lowell's skeleton argument with whiteout and omitted the evidence portion, as there would just be too much personal info there. I have also replaced my name in my skeleton argument with the Michael ******/ Jeffrey ****** & Michael Myers pseudonym variations as well. Otherwise, there shouldn't be any personal data visible in these attachments.

I appreciate it is short notice with a fair amount to read, but any insight you could offer me or suggested revisions would be super useful. As an FYI, I actually had a deed poll name change done in 2016 to go from my mother's maiden name, to my fathers name (Think Michael Myers changing to Michael ******). I also have the document and am thinking of including it in evidence in hopes of refuting any notion of me having a middle name, or the identities being linked. Though not sure if this hurts or helps my case? Anyway, iif you could let me know your thoughts that would be great. Thank you!

[echat11]

They made a Statement on the 16th October, they got some facts wrong, they are hoping to correct with the Statement of the 17th October. You will need to fight your corner.

Point 2 - Have you seen the statement that point 2 refers to?

Point 3 - You aren’t arguing your identity as such, but the facts they are using in the case, the facts should be correct.

Point 5 - I would explain any mitigating circumstances i.e. that it was a ‘hectic’ period for you, job, health, reason for moving etc. And the fact that you didn’t receive the CCJ documentation as you had moved.

Point 6 - Same - I would explain any mitigating circumstances i.e. that it was a ‘hectic’ period for you, job, health, reason for moving etc. Fact is that you didn’t receive the CCJ documentation as you had moved.

Point 8 / 9/ 10 - If they had this information, why did they get the first name wrong on the CCJ, didn’t carry out proper checks, I.e. with the other credit reference agencies.

Point 11 - It was a error on the bank’s part, I’m not sure what they mean by ‘denial’.

Point 12 - So something else they got wrong.

Point 13 - So it’s clear they didn’t carry out proper due diligence when they went for the CCJ.

Point 14 - Explains how Experian gather information, nothing more.

Point 15 - I think you mean as a first name.

I don't think it is straightforward for them. Don't concentrate too much on their points, concentrate on yours.

Your Skeleton Argument is fine, except for this bit,

'Address/correspondence discrepancy - I was unable to challenge the judgment
& due to being unaware of proceedings (as well as any debt) having not lived at address court instruction was served to.'

Especially if you are saying the following

'I moved out of this address a number of months (3 i think) before the CCJ was issued so'.

Just negate the points in their Skeleton Argument the best as you can.

[soursocrates]

Hi echat et al,

I just first and foremost want to say thank you so much for your support throughout this process echat, your resources, knowledge and patience has been truly invaluable. I had several doubts about this process, but i am glad I chose to trust you regardless of the outcome of the hearing today.

With that being said today was a very tough day and i have just got back form court... But I won & the judgment has been officially set aside with the view to this now being argued in a 2 hour trial which will be set sometime in the near future at small claims court.

One of the biggest factors in my favour what that when I presented my passport, it was as i said it was, Michael ******, and not Jeffrey ****** to whom the judgement in default was made against. Also the fact that the 'relevant checks' that Overdales had claimed to have done and supplied as evidence such as the application etc, left much to be desired in terms of their content etc. The reason why the judgement wasn't totally struck out altogether, is because Michael ****** does appear as the name on one of the debts, but not the primary debt for which the CCJ was lodged with those details of Jeffrey ******.

The judge had also said that I will now be added to the trial/draft order as a secondary defendant, instead of it just being addressed only to 'Jeffrey ******'. This is so that i, as Michael ******, am able to stand as a defendant in small claims court, whereas if i wasn't on the order, I would not be able to represent myself, as I am not Jeffrey ******. The judge said will be what I had included in my original witness statement on my N244 form will act as my defence for trial.

One thing the lawyer for lowell did say out in the waiting room before the hearing began is that he was impressed at the skeleton argument I put forward as a layperson and without legal representation, and he also interestingly thought that this is a case of fraud/identity theft, which i said was my thoughts also and was plausible due to both agreements all coming from a single address, one which was a home with multiple people renting and living in the property and the building in general, which all shared a single letter box. The judge also mentioned the possibility of identity theft in the hearing without me having to prompt him on this also.

In the pleasant chat i had with the lawyer before the meeting, i had mentioned that i didn't take this personal, and that I am not against him, or angry at him, because he's just doing his job representing Overdale's stance. He was actually surprised and said he appreciated that. As I assume most people he litigates against may be very combative in these small claim debt cases, and can take things very personal. And after the hearing, he actually said to me that all things considered, that actually went quite well. So it seemed that deep down after him analysing the case, he was on my side too, but again, just doing what he was instructed to do.

So in terms of next steps, as mentioned, the judge said there was more than enough plausibility that i would be able to argue a defence on my behalf at a trial, which is why he set aside the judgment, but at trial there was the need to argue/prove that the person included on the application is indeed me. If Lowell wins, then a CCJ in my actual name (and not the incorrect one) will be applied, with me having to then pay their court costs and officially ordered to pay the CCJ judgement, which will be a new (due to the original default judgement from 2 years ago being set aside) and will be dated from the new trial date and on my record for 6 years from that point i would assume. This naturally is the worst case scenario & outcome for me. If i win, there is no CCJ, the case is dismissed and Overdales pay my court costs and fees (some £350-£400 roughly).

In all honesty, I am genuinely not sure that I wish to go through a trial and all of the things and potential outcomes that may come with that. I feel like at this stage I would prefer to settle out of court with Overdales, with my stance/offer being that we each essentially both cut our losses now, and I won't pursue the trial and any application fee reimbursement, on the condition that they cease any and all action against me. This will then stop them from incurring any more costs in time, man power & resource for the sake of a relatively small £1197.00 debt. Which will end up being costly for them in terms of my fees should they lose. I'm not sure how realistic this is offer is, but I wanted to get your thoughts on any and all of this please echat? Any advice will be very welcome.



Again, I couldn't have got this far and/or done any of this without you. Thank you so much for your help.

[echat11]

Well done, all your own work for 'sticking to your guns'

Clearly, Overdales will feel 'stung', they tried to avoid today's result on the 16th / 17th October, with their response to your N244 and Skeleton Arguement.

I get what you are saying. You have the 'upper hand', so what you can do is send Overdales 'Without Prejudice' offers in writing, make sure 'Without Prejudice' is written on the letters and you get Proof of Postage.

Try with a 'low offer' (£500), see what they comeback with, you are in a very, very strong position to 'negotiate'. I'm fairly sure you can get your fees back as you've won. Maybe point that out to Overdales.

https://nationaldebtline.org/fact-sh...f%20the%20debt.

You can amend the following -

https://nationaldebtline.org/sample-...tlement-offer/

[soursocrates]

Thanks Echat,

I'm sure they are reeling at least somewhat from the judgment today, and I'll do just that. Plus it means they will get something as opposed to nothing from this.So essentially I will draft together a letter and title it as a out of court settlement offer 'Without Prejudice' with a 'low offer'. Do you suggest i only do this by mail with proof of postage or can i send a copy via email as well?

Do you think 500 pounds is the lowest I should offer for this? It means my total outlay will be around 800 pounds including n244 fees (and other costs) since i won't be requesting reimbursement for that as part of this negotiation, but threatening that i could if i wish through the courts. The money isn't the biggest concern, i just worry that by starting with 500 pounds from a 1197 debt, that is a starting point close to 50%, they may then counter for more. So i was thinking of offering 300 pounds, with them likely countering for a sum higher, like the 500 pounds we are talking about initially.

Ultimately, what matters is not having a CCJ, thats my priority as opposed to anything else. Just thinking out loud and floating the idea. What are your thoughts?

[echat11]

Thanks Echat,

I'm sure they are reeling at least somewhat from the judgment today, and I'll do just that. Plus it means they will get something as opposed to nothing from this.So essentially I will draft together a letter and title it as a out of court settlement offer 'Without Prejudice' with a 'low offer'. Do you suggest i only do this by mail with proof of postage or can i send a copy via email as well?

Do you think 500 pounds is the lowest I should offer for this? It means my total outlay will be around 800 pounds including n244 fees (and other costs) since i won't be requesting reimbursement for that as part of this negotiation, but threatening that i could if i wish through the courts. The money isn't the biggest concern, i just worry that by starting with 500 pounds from a 1197 debt, that is a starting point close to 50%, they may then counter for more. So i was thinking of offering 300 pounds, with them likely countering for a sum higher, like the 500 pounds we are talking about initially.

Ultimately, what matters is not having a CCJ, thats my priority as opposed to anything else. Just thinking out loud and floating the idea. What are your thoughts?

You can email it if you want to. Start with what you feel comfortable with, if it's £150 so be it, it's your call, you are in the driving seat and they know that. They should be 'hugely embarrassed', so time for them to cut their losses.

[soursocrates]

Hey Echat, thanks a lot for the resources. Very helpful as always. I've drafted the email. Would you mind taking a look and letting me know what you think and if i need to make any amendments? All being well I will send this as soon i've heard back from you/made any needed ammends:


Lowell Financial

PO BOX 13079

Harlow

CM20 9TE




Reference Number: ********

Dear Sir/Madam,

I hope this finds you well. I am writing to you In light of the result entered on Monday 23rd October at County Court at **** at 11:40 in the case of Lowell Portfolio Ltd vs ******* which deemed that the judgment previously entered on 12/07/2021 at Northampton County Court Business Centre, (case number *****) against Mr **** **, should be set aside, as stated by the presiding judge.




Due to this set aside judgement being achieved & with a trial being recommended by the judge as a next step, I write this letter to you to offer a full and final settlement in the form of an offer without prejudice. I offer a sum of £150.00 only to act as a full and final settlement, paid to an account you deem fit should this offer be formally agreed and payment details be provided by yourself.




As part of this settlement offer, I am willing to forgo my claim to reimbursement for all costs incurred in my successful N244 application, which I believe I would be entitled to claiming and receiving at this stage due to having won this set aside judgment on the 23rd October 2023 at County Court at ****. I make this offer on the clear understanding that if it is accepted, neither yourselves nor any associate company may take any further action in the form of collection or enforcement of this debt in any way. And as a consequence, I will be released of any and all liability and this debt is considered settled on any credit filing, closed, and the balance for this debt as being ‘zero'.




I offer this full and final settlement offer not as an admission of any culpability and/or guilt. I offer this simply as a form of swift resolution for all parties in good faith. Thus saving time and resource on each of our parts, as well as valuable court time which can be spent elsewhere.




If agreeable, I will be able to pay this stated sum within 3 business days of confirmation of your agreement and receipt of payment details from yourselves.




I look forward to hearing from you regarding this matter.

Best,

*****

[soursocrates]

Just to also mention that for some reason i cannot edit the post, but above the 'Dear Sir/Madam' i have included a 'Without Prejudice' heading, which i will also include in the subject of the email alongside the case information and hearing date.

[echat11]

I've only put in bold the changes, clearly when you email it get rid of the bold.

Lowell Financial

PO BOX 13079

Harlow

CM20 9TE


Without Prejudice


Reference Number: ********

Dear Sir/Madam,

I hope this finds you well.

I am writing to you In light of the Judgement entered on Monday 23rd October at County Court at **** at 11:40 in the case of Lowell Portfolio Ltd vs ******* which deemed that the judgment previously entered on 12/07/2021 at Northampton County Court Business Centre, (case number *****) against Mr **** **, should be set aside, as stated by the presiding judge.

Due to this Judgement being set aside & with a trial being recommended by the Judge as a next step, I write this letter to you to offer a Full and Final Settlement in the form of an offer Without Prejudice. I offer a sum of £150.00 only to act as a Full and Final Settlement, paid to an account you deem fit should this offer be formally agreed and payment details be provided by yourself.

As part of this settlement offer, I am willing to forgo my claim to reimbursement for all costs incurred in my successful N244 application, which I believe I would be entitled to claim and receiving at this stage due to having successfully set aside the Judgment, on the 23rd October 2023 at County Court at ****.

I make this offer on the clear understanding that if it is accepted, neither yourselves nor any associate company may take any further action in the form of collection or enforcement of this debt in any way. And as a consequence, I will be released of any and all liability and this debt is considered settled on any credit filing, closed, and the balance for this debt as being 'zero'.

I offer this Full and Final Settlement offer not as an admission of any culpability and/or guilt. I offer this simply as a form of swift resolution for all parties in good faith. Thus saving time and costs for both parties, as well as valuable court time.

If agreeable, I will be able to pay this stated sum within 3 business days of confirmation of your agreement and receipt of payment details from yourselves.

I look forward to hearing from you regarding this matter.

Best

*****

[MIKE770]

Credit files to read" Full & Final Settlement"? as they will/could only put "Partial Settlement".,?

[soursocrates]

Thanks Echat & Mike - i have made the above amends to the email and have sent it off. I will be back in touch as soon as I hear back from them. I hope you all have a great week ahead.