Mortgage Shortfall Dispute

[scotty2021]

Just quick update, I have a telephone call with the investigator later today. I will be asking her to explain how I am meant to know something is wrong when I don't know something is wrong? I will also being asking her why she hasn't addressed the fact that they continue to chase a disputed debt. I will follow everything up in an email and ask for it to be transferred to an Ombudsman.

Also I maybe clutching at straws here, but can asking for the breakdown of the shortfall be taken as a complaint against the balance?

[echat11]

Just quick update, I have a telephone call with the investigator later today. I will be asking her to explain how I am meant to know something is wrong when I don't know something is wrong? I will also being asking her why she hasn't addressed the fact that they continue to chase a disputed debt. I will follow everything up in an email and ask for it to be transferred to an Ombudsman.

Also I maybe clutching at straws here, but can asking for the breakdown of the shortfall be taken as a complaint against the balance?

You can try, remember it's something for the other side to consider and agree to.

It might be something that the investigator / Ombudsman may maybe willing to facilitate.

[scotty2021]

Just had the call from the investigator and she said she will take another look at it. She is awaiting NatWests response as well.

[echat11]

No call from the investigator at the ombudsman today, this is extremely frustrating now

Hang in there, might be nearer 6.00pm.

Maybe write out exactly what you are going to say, easy to get 'muddled' when you are annoyed.

[scotty2021]

Hang in there, might be nearer 6.00pm.

Maybe write out exactly what you are going to say, easy to get 'muddled' when you are annoyed.

Sorry jumped the gun she was running late for the call. Thanks I had a notepad with a number of things I wanted to go over. I've said for now I will await hers and NatWests responses (NatWest has asked for more time) before I decide whether to ask an ombudsman to have a look.

[echat11]

Sorry jumped the gun she was running late for the call. Thanks I had a notepad with a number of things I wanted to go over. I've said for now I will await hers and NatWests responses (NatWest has asked for more time) before I decide whether to ask an ombudsman to have a look.

That's o.k., Update on progress.

[scotty2021]

Afternoon all

I had an email from the investigator regarding my complaint, shes still waiting information regarding the charges before making a final decision on that part of my complaint. However as there were multiple elements to my complaint one being that the amount they are chasing is a lot more than the last statement of account I had (only provided to me by the bank through the ombudsmans service) the bank has accepted her outcome and have provided a statement showing the current balance (which I will still dispute as this still includes the service charges). This does show that when the bank instructed their solicitors they provided an incorrect figure and have repeatedly confirmed that was the current balance even though it was not, is it worth going back to her and asking for an explanation as to why they instructed and continued to instruct on the incorrect amount? Also I've just checked my credit report and the account now shows as being settled on 5/12/21, why would the bank show an outstanding debt as being settled?

I also have another complaint with them FOS against the solicitors for chasing a disputed debt and for their handling of the account, I am awaiting an update from the investigator on that one.

Thanks again

[echat11]

Afternoon all

I had an email from the investigator regarding my complaint, shes still waiting information regarding the charges before making a final decision on that part of my complaint. However as there were multiple elements to my complaint one being that the amount they are chasing is a lot more than the last statement of account I had (only provided to me by the bank through the ombudsmans service) the bank has accepted her outcome and have provided a statement showing the current balance (which I will still dispute as this still includes the service charges). This does show that when the bank instructed their solicitors they provided an incorrect figure and have repeatedly confirmed that was the current balance even though it was not, is it worth going back to her and asking for an explanation as to why they instructed and continued to instruct on the incorrect amount? Also I've just checked my credit report and the account now shows as being settled on 5/12/21, why would the bank show an outstanding debt as being settled?

I also have another complaint with them FOS against the solicitors for chasing a disputed debt and for their handling of the account, I am awaiting an update from the investigator on that one.

Thanks again

a) This does show that when the bank instructed their solicitors they provided an incorrect figure and have repeatedly confirmed that was the current balance even though it was not, is it worth going back to her and asking for an explanation as to why they instructed and continued to instruct on the incorrect amount?

Yes, no harm in doing that.

b) Also I've just checked my credit report and the account now shows as being settled on 5/12/21, why would the bank show an outstanding debt as being settled?

I'm guessing, Ombudsman's involvement, they are looking at your complaint. The bank trying to do the right thing.

c) I also have another complaint with them FOS against the solicitors for chasing a disputed debt and for their handling of the account, I am awaiting an update from the investigator on that one.

That complaint maybe one for the SRA.

[scotty2021]

a) This does show that when the bank instructed their solicitors they provided an incorrect figure and have repeatedly confirmed that was the current balance even though it was not, is it worth going back to her and asking for an explanation as to why they instructed and continued to instruct on the incorrect amount?

Yes, no harm in doing that.

b) Also I've just checked my credit report and the account now shows as being settled on 5/12/21, why would the bank show an outstanding debt as being settled?

I'm guessing, Ombudsman's involvement, they are looking at your complaint. The bank trying to do the right thing.

c) I also have another complaint with them FOS against the solicitors for chasing a disputed debt and for their handling of the account, I am awaiting an update from the investigator on that one.

That complaint maybe one for the SRA.

I'm guessing, Ombudsman's involvement, they are looking at your complaint. The bank trying to do the right thing.
Even before I complained to the Ombudsman?

That complaint maybe one for the SRA.

I did think about doing that but I also noticed they are FCA regulated so thought I'd go with the FOS, is it worth putting one in with the SRA as well or will it look like I'm duplicating complaints, they are also members of the CSA which I did also think about submitting a complaint to.

[echat11]

I'm guessing, Ombudsman's involvement, they are looking at your complaint. The bank trying to do the right thing.
Even before I complained to the Ombudsman?

That complaint maybe one for the SRA.

I did think about doing that but I also noticed they are FCA regulated so thought I'd go with the FOS, is it worth putting one in with the SRA as well or will it look like I'm duplicating complaints, they are also members of the CSA which I did also think about submitting a complaint to.

a) They just backdated it.

'the account now shows as being settled on 5/12/21'

[scotty2021]

I went back through my MSE credit club reports (they produce them monthly) and it was showing as an active account on the November 21 report but on the December 21 report it shows as settled and closed, just find it strange they would do that but maybe as you say they done it because I am actively disputing the debt.

[scotty2021]

Good morning all
Last night I received another "view" from the investigator at the FOS:

She still states I am outside of the 3-year time limit for raising a complaint about the service charges being applied to the account as I should have known I needed to complain before I knew I needed to. She is saying I knew there was a debt when the solicitors wrote to me in 2017 and therefore that's when the time limit started.

She has upheld part of my complaint, this was regarding the balance that was being chased by the solicitors was incorrect and did not agree to the statements that the bank had provided in the past. She has not made any comment on the fact that the bank continued to instruct their solicitors to chase the debt once it was disputed.

Separate to this ombudsman complaint I raised an additional complaint to the bank regarding the lack of annual mortgage statements for the period 2019 - 2022 and asked why these haven't been sent out. Four weeks after making the complaint the bank responded to say the FOS was dealing with it, I argued this with them and then asked the investigator at the FOS to confirm. She said, "I can look into this but currently as I've explained waiting for (BANK NAME) to respond".

In her view sent yesterday she has now said this needs to be raised with the bank separately and then sent to them if the response is either unsatisfactory or not within 8 weeks.

She also goes on to say that if I haven't updated my address with the bank (which she knows I have) then this could be why the statements haven't been sent.

Theres a couple things that has really annoyed me regarding this last part, firstly she’s delayed this complaint with the bank by insinuating she would investigate it when as I originally thought she can't. Secondly, she seems to be pre-empting an incorrect response to a complaint she claims to be unable to look at whilst not saying anything about the banks conduct.

I will be going back to her and raising several issues with her response and will also be asking for the complaint to be referred to an actual Ombudsman.
I will also go back to the bank and tell them to reopen my complaint regarding the statements and allow them 4 weeks from today to deal with it given that the FOS has delayed it by that amount of time.

Any comment, help or advice would be appreciated. To say the stress levels have shot up this morning is an understatement.

Thanks

[echat11]

a) She still states I am outside of the 3-year time limit for raising a complaint about the service charges being applied to the account as I should have known I needed to complain before I knew I needed to. She is saying I knew there was a debt when the solicitors wrote to me in 2017 and therefore that's when the time limit started.

Tell that she's totally wrong, even if you knew there was a debt, at that time you didn't know there wasn't a problem. You could give her the following example, approx 64 million PPI policies were sold, most people knew they were sold PPI at the time, but weren't aware that there was a problem until it was made aware to them many years later. The FOS still looked into their complaints. That is something that you should go back to her about. Then the Ombudsman.

b) She has upheld part of my complaint, this was regarding the balance that was being chased by the solicitors was incorrect and did not agree to the statements that the bank had provided in the past. She has not made any comment on the fact that the bank continued to instruct their solicitors to chase the debt once it was disputed.

Good that she's upheld part of your complaint. The bit underlined, you need to complain to the SRA.

c) Separate to this ombudsman complaint I raised an additional complaint to the bank regarding the lack of annual mortgage statements for the period 2019 - 2022 and asked why these haven't been sent out. Four weeks after making the complaint the bank responded to say the FOS was dealing with it, I argued this with them and then asked the investigator at the FOS to confirm. She said, "I can look into this but currently as I've explained waiting for (BANK NAME) to respond".

In her view sent yesterday she has now said this needs to be raised with the bank separately and then sent to them if the response is either unsatisfactory or not within 8 weeks.

She also goes on to say that if I haven't updated my address with the bank (which she knows I have) then this could be why the statements haven't been sent.

Do as she says, raise it separately. As you've already complained about this with the bank, ask them to send you a 'deadlock' letter if the 8 weeks is up.

d) Theres a couple things that has really annoyed me regarding this last part, firstly she’s delayed this complaint with the bank by insinuating she would investigate it when as I originally thought she can't. Secondly, she seems to be pre-empting an incorrect response to a complaint she claims to be unable to look at whilst not saying anything about the banks conduct.

I reckon, they are snowed under, maybe when it's complete, lodge a service complaint, no doubt they have been sending you 'satisfaction surveys'.

e) I will be going back to her and raising several issues with her response and will also be asking for the complaint to be referred to an actual Ombudsman.
I will also go back to the bank and tell them to reopen my complaint regarding the statements and allow them 4 weeks from today to deal with it given that the FOS has delayed it by that amount of time.

Any comment, help or advice would be appreciated. To say the stress levels have shot up this morning is an understatement.

Answered above.

[scotty2021]

Hi Echat,

Thanks for all your help with this. The investigator has now come back to me, she's still saying that I should complained earlier. Here is what she has said:

I can see you're saying you didn't realise you had cause to complain until you had all the material facts but all the material facts were not needed to know that BANK was asking you to repay a lump sum that you were not previously made aware of.

This is a similar situation to if there is a bank charge on a bank account. The complaint would need to be raised within three years of when the customer becomes aware of this. The customer may seek to obtain further information around why this has been charged for their clarity, but that doesn't change that the customer was aware there was cause to complain or ought reasonably to have been aware there was cause for complaint when they discovered the charge.

The important part here is it is when the cause for complaint is known or when you ought reasonably to have been aware there was cause to complain.

If you were not aware there was cause to complain, I consider you ought reasonably to have been aware there was cause to complain upon being told there was a lump sum which you were not informed of for a number of years.

Our website discusses PPI complaints. PPI is a separate area of complaint and there are different rules applicable with PPI complaints. This is because consumers may not have been aware there was cause to complain when they were being sold this, so they were given time to refer these complaints.

I have until the 5th October to provide any additional evidence or representations or accept her recommendations.

Should I go back with anything else or leave this to be automatically referred to an Ombudsman?

I done a DSAR recently and now have that back and in amoungst it, there are some account notes where a recommendation was made to write off these charges as they don't have the paper work and to get the debt moving, however there is also another note that says they aren't willing to write them off as they believe I am liable for them is it worth sending any of this over to the FOS?

Thanks again for the help.

[echat11]

a) Should I go back with anything else or leave this to be automatically referred to an Ombudsman?

I would, she seems to be trying to make a case to justify the decision she has already made.

b) I done a DSAR recently and now have that back and in amoungst it, there are some account notes where a recommendation was made to write off these charges as they don't have the paper work and to get the debt moving, however there is also another note that says they aren't willing to write them off as they believe I am liable for them is it worth sending any of this over to the FOS?

I would, they say 'they don't have the paper work'. See what she says.