Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

[Amethyst]

Cancellation terms for Abbey contract

We need to look at the terms in the Abbey Solicitors contract with regards cancellation outside of the 14 days ( or within the 14 days if the contract has been returned ??? apparently ) so thus need to assess the terms under the Consumer Contracts ( Information, Cancellation etc ) rule to ensure there is a decent argument to cancel without paying the £3600 / £2500 etc 'fixed fee'.

So in the main letter it says nothing about cancellation - possibly this is relevant



In the attached small print ( of which there are 5 pages with 2 columns on each ) Clause 17 (on page 3 ) states;

[Amethyst]

Re: Cancellation terms for Abbey contract

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/support...ulations-2013/ confirms the contracts between solicitor and client are covered by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2.../contents/made

6.2.3 Providing the information in a distance contract

For the client to be bound by the contract, you must provide the information detailed above in a format appropriate to the means of the distance communication.

If the right to cancel exists then you must give or make available a cancellation form to the client as set out in part B of schedule 3 of the regulations. The information in vi, vii and viii can be provided via the model instructions for cancellation set out in part A of schedule 3 of the regulations.

If the means of distance communication allows limited space or time then you can provide some information by a different means. However, this does not apply in relation to information about:

the characteristics of the good or services
your identity
the price of the good or services
additional delivery charges
the right to cancel where applicable
the duration of the contract or, if it is indeterminate or automatically renewed, how to cancel

You must supply this information in a format appropriate to the means of the distance communication.

For instance, if you were forming a contract over the telephone, you would need to supply the information described above over the phone, but the other information listed under 6.1 and 6.2 might be provided via an email.

If your client isn't informed of additional delivery charges or the information in iv or vii, they will not be liable for the costs referred to in those paragraphs.

Any information given to a client that is required by the regulations becomes part of the contract. Changes in that information either before or during the contract are only effective with the express agreement of you and the client.

If you make a telephone call with a view to concluding a distance contract, you must tell the potential client three things at the beginning of the conversation:

the firm's identity
the identity of the firm you are making the call on behalf of, if applicable
the commercial purpose of the call

And the law ....

Information to be provided before making a distance contract

13.—(1) Before the consumer is bound by a distance contract, the trader—

(a)must give or make available to the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and comprehensible manner, and in a way appropriate to the means of distance communication used, and

(b)if a right to cancel exists, must give or make available to the consumer a cancellation form as set out in part B of Schedule 3.

(2) In so far as the information is provided on a durable medium, it must be legible.

(3) The information referred to in paragraphs (l), (m) and (n) of Schedule 2 may be provided by means of the model instructions on cancellation set out in part A of Schedule 3; and a trader who has supplied those instructions to the consumer, correctly filled in, is to be treated as having complied with paragraph (1) in respect of those paragraphs.

(4) Where a distance contract is concluded through a means of distance communication which allows limited space or time to display the information—

(a)the information listed in paragraphs (a), (b), (f), (g), (h), (l) and (s) of Schedule 2 must be provided on that means of communication in accordance with paragraphs (1) and (2), but

(b)the other information required by paragraph (1) may be provided in another appropriate way.

(5) If the trader has not complied with paragraph (1) in respect of paragraph (g), (h) or (m) of Schedule 2, the consumer is not to bear the charges or costs referred to in those paragraphs.

(6) Any information that the trader gives the consumer as required by this regulation is to be treated as included as a term of the contract.

(7) A change to any of that information, made before entering into the contract or later, is not effective unless expressly agreed between the consumer and the trader.

Schedule 2

Regulations 10(1) and 13(1)
SCHEDULE 2Information relating to distance and off-premises contracts

The information referred to in regulations 10(1) and 13(1) is (subject to the note at the end of this Schedule)—

(a)the main characteristics of the goods or services, to the extent appropriate to the medium of communication and to the goods or services;

(b)the identity of the trader (such as the trader’s trading name);

(c)the geographical address at which the trader is established and, where available, the trader’s telephone number, fax number and e-mail address, to enable the consumer to contact the trader quickly and communicate efficiently;

(d)where the trader is acting on behalf of another trader, the geographical address and identity of that other trader;

(e)if different from the address provided in accordance with paragraph (c), the geographical address of the place of business of the trader, and, where the trader acts on behalf of another trader, the geographical address of the place of business of that other trader, where the consumer can address any complaints;

(f)the total price of the goods or services inclusive of taxes, or where the nature of the goods or services is such that the price cannot reasonably be calculated in advance, the manner in which the price is to be calculated,

(g)where applicable, all additional delivery charges and any other costs or, where those charges cannot reasonably be calculated in advance, the fact that such additional charges may be payable;

(h)in the case of a contract of indeterminate duration or a contract containing a subscription, the total costs per billing period or (where such contracts are charged at a fixed rate) the total monthly costs;

(i)the cost of using the means of distance communication for the conclusion of the contract where that cost is calculated other than at the basic rate;

(j)the arrangements for payment, delivery, performance, and the time by which the trader undertakes to deliver the goods or to perform the services;

(k)where applicable, the trader’s complaint handling policy;

(l)where a right to cancel exists, the conditions, time limit and procedures for exercising that right in accordance with regulations 27 to 38;

(m)where applicable, that the consumer will have to bear the cost of returning the goods in case of cancellation and, for distance contracts, if the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post, the cost of returning the goods;

(n)that, if the consumer exercises the right to cancel after having made a request in accordance with regulation 36(1), the consumer is to be liable to pay the trader reasonable costs in accordance with regulation 36(4);

(o)where under regulation 28, 36 or 37 there is no right to cancel or the right to cancel may be lost, the information that the consumer will not benefit from a right to cancel, or the circumstances under which the consumer loses the right to cancel;

(p)in the case of a sales contract, a reminder that the trader is under a legal duty to supply goods that are in conformity with the contract;

(q)where applicable, the existence and the conditions of after-sale customer assistance, after-sales services and commercial guarantees;

(r)the existence of relevant codes of conduct, as defined in regulation 5(3)(b) of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and how copies of them can be obtained, where applicable;

(s)the duration of the contract, where applicable, or, if the contract is of indeterminate duration or is to be extended automatically, the conditions for terminating the contract;

(t)where applicable, the minimum duration of the consumer’s obligations under the contract;

(u)where applicable, the existence and the conditions of deposits or other financial guarantees to be paid or provided by the consumer at the request of the trader;

(v)where applicable, the functionality, including applicable technical protection measures, of digital content;

(w)where applicable, any relevant compatibility of digital content with hardware and software that the trader is aware of or can reasonably be expected to have been aware of;

(x)where applicable, the possibility of having recourse to an out-of-court complaint and redress mechanism, to which the trader is subject, and the methods for having access to it.

Note: In the case of a public auction, the information listed in paragraphs (b) to (e) may be replaced with the equivalent details for the auctioneer.

[ULA]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

I have reviewed both documents and here are my comments:

Client Care Letter (CCL)

Page 1 “The Work”
If they have spoken to the client/s then they should be able to be more specific about the nature of where the claims have arisen from not provide a sweeping statement covering a range of financial services. A CCL is specific to that individual/s and the section setting out the work being done must be a reflection of that person/s own circumstances.

Page 2
They should not really be threatening that if something else comes to light in the future then they cannot act. If something else, completely unbeknown to the client/s at the time they sign the CCL, does “land” then it either becomes a new matter i.e new CCL specific to that issue or if similar enough in nature they could vary the existing CCL but make very clear in correspondence the effect it will have on the current arrangement e.g. increase in costs, new timescale etc.

Not sure why they consider they should deal with a regulator or Ombudsman as part of the process? Abbey are being instructed to deal with it through legal channels. The client/s could deal with a regulator or Ombudsman themselves at no expense to them.

Para starting “Should we identify …..” gives the client/s no comfort as to what this will be as the scope of the current instructions is so “unspecified”. Means Abbey can just start to charge the client more by saying it is “out of scope”.
Abbey has not fully explored or set out all the options for the client/s in regard to court proceedings.

Timescales for completion of the work is too long. If (and I know that is a big IF because they are not) they were experienced at this type of work (how can a trainee be) then they should be able to breakdown better timescales based on previous work of this nature i.e. how long it is likely to take to obtain all the relevant information/documents from the creditors, based on that then how long to analyse this and report back to the client at which point they can determine a course of action and then update timescales to the client.

A trainee responsible for a file!!! A trainee can provide the level of experience required to conduct the matter?!! Supervision!!! Clearly not as there is no detail of who the immediate supervisor is.

Page 3
First half irrelevant as it is a fixed fee.

When it comes to the actual payment plan being offered by the firm to cover the costs they need a CCL to be able to enter into this type of agreement. They don’t have one!!

General Omission / Observation
No reference to Distance Selling Regulations and cooling off period. (Although Abbey may argue it is covered in the ToB clauses 17 e) and f)??

Generally not a great CCL and certainly not in keeping with the SRA Code of Conduct particularly with the outcomes required of section 1 Client Care. More like client uncare!

Terms of Business
Termination will require the payment of any outstanding sum of the fixed fee.

Generally between the 2 documents there are a number of other things that should be covered but not contained in either document but they are not really relevant to the fundamental issue of why a firm like this is dealing with this kind of work. They are really not looking after the best interests of their client/s which is a cornerstone of their obligations as set out by their governing body.

In my view we need to be guiding very vulnerable people away from this firm.

[Amethyst]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

Thank you so much for going through all that - really helpful xx

[charitynjw]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

Although imho the agreement/contract sent to ex-Compass clients is a regulated (CCA) agreement, it would appear that, as Abbey are registered with the SRA, to avoid the expense of dual registration, they do not need a separate FCA licence/registration.

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/news/pr...gulation-role/

[Celestine]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

That only applies to firms where the CCA work involved is incidental to the main work being undertaken.

This work being undertaken by Abbey is the core work and the fact they are offering credit for the fixed fee is a further aggravating factor.

[Amethyst]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

Although imho the agreement/contract sent to ex-Compass clients is a regulated (CCA) agreement, it would appear that, as Abbey are registered with the SRA, to avoid the expense of dual registration, they do not need a separate FCA licence/registration.

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/news/pr...gulation-role/

Toolkit for ref:

[ULA]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

That only applies to firms where the CCA work involved is incidental to the main work being undertaken.

This work being undertaken by Abbey is the core work and the fact they are offering credit for the fixed fee is a further aggravating factor.

Agreed these two points were very clear when I was investigating whether we needed an licence at HC.

[Amethyst]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

When I spoke with the SRA the other day they didn't seem to have a clue what the difference between incidental and needing a CCL was - I explained as best I could and when I outlined what Abbey were offering, they did say it sounded like the needed a separate CCL - all the documents are with them, and with the FCA, so we'll see what, if anything, they come back with ( or do ).

[charitynjw]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

That only applies to firms where the CCA work involved is incidental to the main work being undertaken.

This work being undertaken by Abbey is the core work and the fact they are offering credit for the fixed fee is a further aggravating factor.

Toolkit for ref:

Agreed these two points were very clear when I was investigating whether we needed an licence at HC.

When I spoke with the SRA the other day they didn't seem to have a clue what the difference between incidental and needing a CCL was - I explained as best I could and when I outlined what Abbey were offering, they did say it sounded like the needed a separate CCL - all the documents are with them, and with the FCA, so we'll see what, if anything, they come back with ( or do ).

Hi ladies

I have been reading & rereading the downloadable info attached to
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/policy-...iety-response/
(The Law Soc response on the RHS; the update doesn't seem to be available)
It seems to identify the current Abbey situation as a grey area.
That said, I suppose that until the situation is resolved re dual registration, the wise thing to do would be to ensure one's derriere was covered by registering with the FCA.

One thing is pretty clear from the response, though - it is deffo a CCA agreement!

If so, I find it pretty ironic that Abbey are telling people that they will investigate possible unenforceability by virtue of a contract/agreement which itself is probably unenforceable, lol!

[victimofcompass]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

Hi, My mother and stepfather had paid £11k to compass and if compass hadn't of gone into liquidation their agreement with them was due to have finished in March this year. I now have heard today that they have signed up with Abbey Solicitors but I don't know precisely when they did that. My guess is it was more than 14 days ago so it sounds like they will be locked into an agreement with them. Has anyone got any advise on their best course of action? I'm concerned as it sounds to me like they have stepped out of the frying pan and into the fryer! They don't have the internet and today is the first day I have heard of their predicament. :-( Thanks Kerrie

[Amethyst]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

Oh bloody hell. Get them to listen to Radio 4 at 12.15 today - they will be talking about Abbey and Compass xxxx

Do they know that they are likely to have lost that £11k ?

Abbey do appear to be accepting cancellations okay, and people have been refunded any money paid, so it's a matter of speaking with them.

Then look at the options for sorting out the debt ongoing - either managing it themselves ( with your help I'd guess) or speaking to someone decent like Stepchange to set up a new DMP ( or consider other options talk to Citizens Advice/National Debtline etc)

[victimofcompass]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

Thank you for all this information. I listened to Radio 4 and what was being advised about Compass and Abbey Solicitors. Unfortunately my mother signed up to Abbey in February so they are outside the 14 days. However I have tonight advised them to call Stepchange and explain their predicament and to seek out who they owe money to and ask them how much is outstanding. I also have told them that they need to call / write to Abbey Solicitors requesting to cancel their agreement. However they have tried to phone Abbey about 10-15 times in the last week and no one returns her calls. They had nearly 12K in a pot with compass and only yesterday sent the document to AABRS regarding how much they have paid to Compass. But I have told her that it is unlikely they'll see the money again. x

[ULA]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

In regard to Abbey I would reiterate what you have already told your parents about cancelling the agreement with Abbey. From what we know it appears that it is a trainee solicitor handling this work who may not be experienced with dealing with a number of clients trying to exit arrangements.

I would get your parents to make a further attempt, via a phone call tomorrow morning, to try to get a response and then if they do not manage to make contact that way they need to send a letter asap (preferably recorded delivery to ensure there is a confirmation of receipt) to cancel the agreement and also requesting acknowledgement from Abbey that this has been done

[Amethyst]

Re: Abbey Solicitors Docs ref Compass Debt Counsellors

Has anyone else recently received back their report from Abbey, and was it what you expected to receive from them after a years engagement ?

I believe clients will need to contact Abbey to ask for copies of their full file.

A list of creditors with a tick or cross next to them doesn't feel particularly sufficient and letters written by them on your behalf to your creditors, plus those creditors replies, belong to you, the client and you are entitled to copies of them.