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PRA Group Vanquis

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  • PRA Group Vanquis

    First go having spent the last three months looking, reading to the sound advice here. It all seemed wonderfully simple until it's yourself involved and to be frank it's daunting, and taking me a while plus a "Now been transferred to investigations and litigation" and containing "Letter before Claim", to get started. It's signed by obviously an in house legal manager / solicitor.

    This first issue is PRA Group who say they have bought this credit card amount owed (£3600) from Vanquis. (agreement 2009) and sent the assignment in letter in 2016, I don't remember that. Initially I was really stressed as the letter does not contain the usual "may" or "could" result type words but clearly says WILL be issuing court proceedings and they await my response by the 3rd October. Then I saw a post with exactly the same letter issued to someone else saying "entered an agreement on or about xxxx" "We do not envisage expert evidence will be required" etc...

    I had been using a DMP at basically £1 for several other creditors all yet to be dealt with. Nothing has been paid since May this year. I have been having more and more problems since my heart attack in July 14 and a second although milder one in 2016. I now work reasonably but cannot afford to either pay anything substantial or get a CCJ as this would effect the work I have.

    Now my thoughts are I should challenge this to check they have everything correct in relation to proving this plus any incorrect charges etc... on any amount allegedly owed. I would really appreciated a suggested step by step approach to this to check I'm on the same lines.

    Many thanks in advance.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: PRA Group Vanquis

    Hi
    As this was a letter before action I think it highly probable that you will get a claim form
    The first thing you must do is send a CCA request to PRA and then the following to whoever sent the LBA ( I am guessing it is the legal department)

    Dear Sirs
    Ref: Enter as per letter received.
    Thank you for your letter dated Pick the date on letter you are responding to. . As the letter contains a threat of litigation, it is being treated as a formal letter before action. As such, I refer you to paragraph 3 of the Practice Direction Pre-Action Conduct, which states: “before commencing proceedings, the court will expect the parties to have exchanged sufficient information to (a) understand each other’s position; (b) make decisions about how to proceed;”
    Paragraph 6 states “the parties should exchange correspondence and information to comply with the objectives“ and Paragraph 6 (c) of refers to “the parties disclosing key documents relevant to the issues in dispute.” My request refers to the documents I require to obtain the necessary information to assess my position in this case.
    I require copies of the following:
    1. The original Type agreement or contract as appropriate.;
    2. The Default Notice;
    3. The Notice of Assignment; Delete if the account has not been sold.
    4. Statements of account;
    5. The Deed of assignment Delete if the account has not been sold.

    These documents would be expected to be supplied if proceedings were issued and would likely be in your possession if you were issuing a claim. If you consider that there is difficulty in providing a copy of a document, please identify that document and the reason.
    DELETE THIS PARAGRAPH IF A CCA REQUEST HAS NOT BEEN SENT OR IS NOT APPLICABLE.Additionally, there is a duty to supply documents under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. A request has been made under s.Type 77 for loans or 78 for credit cards and catalogue accounts. on Pick the date when the CCA request was sent.and I am awaiting a response from Enter the creditor’s name..
    I shall being able to provide you with a full response to your letter within 14 days of receipt of the documents listed above and also reserve the right to refer to the contents of this letter if proceedings are issued without first providing copy documents to me.
    Yours faithfully,

    Your full name
    I would really get them sent tomorrow morning by royal mail signed for

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PRA Group Vanquis

      Thanks very much indeed for the advice and very fast response, appreciated. I saw the post late last night and this morning have type up the letters. I'll get to the post office lunchtime so they'll either go last thing today or tomorrow morning.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PRA Group Vanquis

        Just to clarify

        the most important part is the CCA request to PRA with the £1

        The other is important but wanted to make sure you saw that bit at the top

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PRA Group Vanquis

          Update, I sent the letters (2) on Mon 25th Sept recorded. I received a reply today Thursday 28th, their letter dated Tuesday 26th.

          I think this is a fairly standard reply saying they have requested the information ( I assume from alleged original creditor) and until received will cease further activity. They returned the postal order saying as a gesture they do not charge statutory fee, this was not signed by the person I addressed it to.

          There's also a standard printed generic sheet about what this means etc...what they should provide what they can and cannot do etc..

          I'm not sure why if they issued a Letter before Action plus now are saying just wait basically until we come up with something what this means in reality as they answered my letters basically the same day

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PRA Group Vanquis

            They issue LBAs because they are expected to before issuing a claim and they issue claims because a lot do not even get acknowledged let alone defended.

            Hopefully, this will slow them down and maybe put you in a stronger position.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PRA Group Vanquis

              Thanks again for the prompt reply it's really re assuring.

              I did wonder reading through others posts if the practice was to just issue the claim, not defended, bingo for them. So I now wait until Weds 11th as they say it becomes unenforceable, only until they find some docs then decide whether to pursue?

              I'm really glad I piped up when I did and again thanks with the prompt replies.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PRA Group Vanquis

                Just an update 12+2 gone by, no letters. They are calling twice a day but it's not a problem as I use BT8500 and it doesn't ring just shows a log of calls. I'm assuming there's nothing to do now?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PRA Group Vanquis

                  Another update to hopefully assist people looking through similar issues.

                  I have received today a letter from PRA stating they are enclosing some documents but they still deem it unenforceable in court but are still able to contact me etc... ask me to pay or sell on... this has taking from end of Sept 17.

                  The only thing they supplied was 14 pages of supposed statements showing purchases/payments/interest etc... on what looks like an excel sheet.

                  I am just going to file this with the other letters from them and do nothing if that's the correct approach at the moment?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PRA Group Vanquis

                    I reckon so If there's still no agreement and they've got the transaction lists off of Vanquis it could be Vanquis aren't going to provide them with the agreement / don't have it, or are just sending things in dribs and drabs. Presumably no default or assignment notice either ?
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PRA Group Vanquis

                      Originally posted by SouthernBiker View Post
                      letter from PRA stating they are enclosing some documents but they still deem it unenforceable in court but are still able to contact me etc... ask me to pay or sell on... this has taking from end of Sept 17.

                      The only thing they supplied was 14 pages of supposed statements showing purchases/payments/interest etc... on what looks like an excel sheet.

                      Does that letter say anything about them still waiting for further documents which they've requested from the original creditor?

                      If so then the debt would only be unenforceable temporarily until or unless they can comply with your request.

                      They're sending you that letter because the FCA Handbook says they should in CONC 13.1.6(8) here >

                      https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13/1.html

                      Di

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PRA Group Vanquis

                        Thank you both for your replies.

                        Yes it does say they're waiting for further documents, I'm taking a small guess here you've seen this before!

                        I had an email in 2014 saying account in default then several emails offering reduced balance, a new start , then more offering reduced payments etc... before saying they were on the verge of passing to DCA.

                        In Sept I had a letter from PRA saying they had purchased.

                        Thanks for the link. I understand this isn't over just yet but at the moment nothing for me to do I think.

                        Regards

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PRA Group Vanquis

                          Originally posted by SouthernBiker View Post
                          Yes it does say they're waiting for further documents, I'm taking a small guess here you've seen this before!

                          . . . . I understand this isn't over just yet but at the moment nothing for me to do I think.

                          Yes I have seen this before!

                          There is nothing for you to do at the moment, but I just didn't want to get your hopes up that they would never produce the documents. It's not the time it takes, it's what they eventually produce that counts.

                          In my particular case it was two years from when PRA transferred my account to "investigations and litigation" and the Letter Before Claim was sent, until the end of the matter when we won in court. PRA can be very persistent.

                          Originally posted by Joanna C View Post
                          PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED v DIANA MAYHEW – WIN

                          ‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
                          “UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”


                          So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.

                          Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.

                          After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.

                          Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.

                          This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.

                          Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.
                          Di

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: PRA Group Vanquis

                            Just another update, it was mentioned reference a default notice in a previous post. Today I received a copy from PRA of a Notice of Default dated June 2014 again with similar covering letter as explained to me last time where they point out currently still unenforceable etc...

                            So they have sent

                            Copies of statements.
                            Copy of default notice.

                            Currently that's all.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Another update and advice now required!

                              Today I received a letter from PRA stating here are the documents requested and to contact them within 10 days to discuss settling account.

                              The documents received are a printout of a 2 page online application from and 12 pages of terms and conditions.

                              I would greatly appreciate initial thoughts etc...

                              In summary

                              5/9/17 Letter saying the purchased the balance
                              19/9/17 Letter saying past to Litigation Letter before action
                              26/9/17 Acknowledging CCA request
                              15/1/18 Statements for the duration of card use
                              17/1/18 Copy of default notice dated June 2014
                              22/1/18 Letter containing online application, pages of terms conditions.

                              Thanks in advance

                              Comment

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