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How DCA think about debt...

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  • How DCA think about debt...

    I've been going through some of my files and stumbled upon some interesting stuff I would like to share with you all.

    Some of you may have already read this, but I think it would be good to see how the DCA's think about debt.

    Originally posted by Legal Misconceptions in Debt Sale and Administration


    All debt buyers and collection agencies have to deal with rogue customers who seek to raise spurious defences to avoid or delay payment of legitimate debts. Unfortunately, the growth in the use of websites for disgruntled or mischievous debtors to exchange often inaccurate, but plausible, information has created a number of misconceptions which have been picked up by well-meaning debt customers and advisors without access to proper legal advice.

    Debtors are being encouraged by such websites, and ill-informed advisors, to use their rights to information under the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as weapons against banks, other lenders and debt administration companies with a view to avoiding payment, having adverse entries removed from credit reference agency files and obtaining compensation in respect of those entries.

    Of course, debtors may exercise their rights to obtain information for whatever reason they choose. However, it is not in anyone’s interest for debtors to be encouraged to use those rights in the false hope that they will thereby improve their credit ratings or obtain compensation.

    Various websites assert that a creditor’s failure to provide information to a debtor in accordance with a request made under section 77, 78 or 97 of the Consumer Credit Act gives the debtor the right to have his credit reference agency files amended to delete records of his or her defaults under the agreement. In fact, where a creditor fails to provide information requested in accordance with any of those sections, what the Act does is to prevent the creditor from enforcing the agreement until the creditor provides the information:
    “The creditor is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement”: section 77(4)(a), 78(6)(a) and 97(3)(a).

    That does not mean that the debtor ceases to be liable to repay the indebtedness in accordance with the terms of the agreement; nor does it mean that the debtor’s failure to meet his or her obligations under the agreement should no longer be recorded by credit reference agencies. What it means is that, until the creditor provides the information, the creditor cannot enforce the debt by issuing legal proceedings or by repossessing or realising any security.

    It has also been asserted that any failure by a data controller to comply with its obligations under the Data Protection Act in relation to a debtor’s personal data will entitle the debtor to have adverse credit entries removed from credit reference agency files and to receive compensation. However, the Act only provides for personal data to be erased from records where the data is inaccurate, or where the data subject has suffered damage by reason of a data controller’s breach of the Act in respect of the data and there is a substantial risk of further contravention in respect of those data (see section 14). If a debt administration company had contravened a requirement of the Act in respect of a debtor’s personal data, the debt administration company’s contravention would not enable a court to order the removal of accurate information from a credit reference agency’s files.

    In order for a debtor to receive compensation under the Data Protection Act, or to have accurate data erased, any financial damage suffered must have been caused by the data controller's contravention of the Act (see sections 13 and 14 and Johnson v The Medical Defence Union, Times 4th April 2006). Where, due to an accurate adverse credit history, a debtor is refused further credit or is offered a loan at a higher rate of interest than a person with a less adverse credit history, then it is the adverse credit history which causes any such loss as the debtor may suffer.

    Creditors and debt administration companies disclose information to credit reference agencies about debtors’ conduct of their accounts because that disclosure is necessary for the purposes of legitimate interests pursued by the creditors, the debt administration companies and the credit reference agencies. Credit reference agencies hold such data and disclose it to prospective lenders because that is, similarly, necessary for the purposes of the same legitimate interests. Such disclosure and the maintenance of credit reference agency files play an important role in enabling lenders to assess the risks involved in proposed lending and to avoid irresponsible lending. Accordingly, the Data Protection Act permits disclosure of such information to and by those agencies without the debtor’s consent (see section 4, Schedule 1 and Schedule 2 of the Act, in particular paragraph 6 of Schedule 2).

    Failure by a data controller to provide information to a debtor about the processing of his personal data might make the processing unfair, but, where that processing consists of disclosure of accurate data to a credit reference agency, the unfairness of failing to inform the debtor would not be the cause of any loss suffered by reason of the adverse nature of the data disclosed to the agency. Provided that the data was accurate, a fully informed debtor would not have been entitled to prevent its disclosure.

    There are also popular misconceptions about the rights and obligations of debt purchase companies under the Consumer Credit Act. We do not believe that debt purchasers fall within the definition of “creditor” in section 189(1) of the Consumer Credit Act, because they take assignments of the rights, but not the duties, of creditors under consumer credit agreements: they collect the debts, but they do not themselves lend money. We believe that the Government’s decision to create a new category of business for which a licence is to be required, namely debt administration, when the Act is amended in April 2008, reflects the fact that debt administration companies are not creditors for the purposes of the Act. (When explaining the new category of licence during parliamentary debate, the Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry said that the category was intended to cover those who “purchase portfolios of existing loans and administer them”.) However, the fact that in our view debt purchase companies are not creditors does not mean that they are not entitled to enforce the debts that have been assigned to them, or which, in laymen’s terms, they have bought. As a legal assignee, under section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925, a company which has bought a creditor’s rights under a credit agreement is entitled to sue the debtor for any repayment that remains due under the agreement.

    It is worth pointing out that the Citizen’s Advice Bureau is currently pursuing a series of court cases which challenge the right of the debt purchasers to enforce regulated debts through the courts. The CAB’s argument appears to be that according to the definition of “creditor” under section 189 of the CCA, a purchaser must prove he has acquired the duties as well as the rights to a consumer credit agreement. This is an interesting assertion, but misses the point entirely on the basis that a debt purchaser needs only to be a legal assignee to enforce the credit agreement, which it is as soon as written notice of the assignment is given to the debtor. In my view, the actions of the CAB in these cases are ill conceived and in many ways the outcome of the cases themselves is entirely irrelevant.

    Whatever the correct interpretation of the word “creditor” for the purposes of any relevant provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, it is clearly important that debtors should have access to information relating to their debts and that all lenders, debt buyers and administrators should use all reasonable endeavours to assist in the provision of that information.

    It is just a shame that there appear to be so many debtors, and apparently advice agencies, keen to frustrate attempts by legitimate businesses to seek payment of bona fide, and usually undisputed debts.



    Would any one like to guess who penned this wonderful missive ?
    Last edited by Curlyben; 29th June 2008, 20:27:PM.

  • #2
    Re: How DCA think about debt...

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...4/ai_n21284454

    Here is the link to this article for reference.

    Glen Crawford in association with Cabot

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How DCA think about debt...

      Thanks for the link Tanz

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How DCA think about debt...

        Now then - what is the definition of the criminal offence of deception:

        Well for starters the Theft Act 1968 says: (sorry it is a bit long in text but makes VERY interesting

        Obtaining property by deception

        (1) A person who by any deception dishonestly obtains property belonging to another,
        with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it, shall on conviction on
        indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.
        (2) For purposes of this section a person is to be treated as obtaining property if he obtains
        ownership, possession or control of it, and ‘obtain’ includes obtaining for another or
        enabling another to obtain or to retain.
        (3) Section 6 above shall apply for purposes of this section, with the necessary
        adaptation of the reference to appropriating, as it applies for purposes of section 1.
        (4) For purposes of this section ‘deception’ means any deception (whether deliberate
        or reckless) by words or conduct as to fact or as to law, including a deception as to the
        present intentions of the person using the deception or any other person.

        15A. Obtaining a money transfer by deception

        (1) A person is guilty of an offence if by any deception he dishonestly obtains a
        money transfer for himself or another.
        (2) A money transfer occurs when-
        (a) a debit is made to one account,
        (b) a credit is made to another, and
        (c) the credit results from the debit or the debit results from the credit.
        (3) References to a credit and to a debit are to a credit of an amount of money and to a
        debit of an amount of money.
        (4) It is immaterial (in particular)-
        (a) whether the amount credited is the same as the amount debited;
        (b) whether the money transfer is effected on presentment of a cheque or by
        another method;
        (c) whether any delay occurs in the process by which the money transfer is
        effected;
        (d) whether any intermediate credits or debits are made in the course of the
        money transfer;
        (e) whether either of the accounts is overdrawn before or after the money
        transfer is effected.
        (5) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on conviction on
        indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

        15B. Section 15A: supplementary

        (1) The following provisions have effect for the interpretation of section 15A of this
        Act.
        (2) ‘Deception’ has the same meaning as in section 15 of this Act.
        (3) ‘Account’ means an account kept with-
        (a) a bank; or
        (b) a person carrying on a business which falls within subsection (4) below.
        (4) A business falls within this subsection if-
        (a) in the course of the business money received by way of deposit is lent to
        others; or
        (b) any other activity of the business is financed, wholly or to any material
        extent, out of the capital of or the interest on money received by way of deposit;
        7
        and ‘deposit’ here has the same meaning as in section 35 of the Banking Act 1987
        (fraudulent inducement to make a deposit).
        (5) For the purposes of subsection (4) above-
        (a) all the activities which a person carries on by way of business shall be
        regarded as a single business carried on by him; and
        (b) ‘money’ includes money expressed in a currency other than sterling or in
        the European currency unit (as defined in Council Regulation No. 3320/94/EC or
        any Community instrument replacing it).

        16. Obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception

        (1) A person who by any deception dishonestly obtains for himself or another any
        pecuniary advantage shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term
        not exceeding five years.
        (2) All cases in which a pecuniary advantage within the meaning of this section is to
        be regarded as obtained for a person are cases where-
        (a) [repealed];
        (b) he is allowed to borrow by way of overdraft, or to take out any policy of
        insurance or annuity contract, or obtains an improvement of the terms on which he
        is allowed to do so; or
        (c) he is given the opportunity to earn remuneration or greater remuneration
        in an office or employment, or to win money by betting.
        (3) For purposes of this section ‘deception’ has the same meaning as in section 15 of
        this Act.

        17. False accounting

        (1) Where a person dishonestly, with a view to gain for himself or another or with
        intent to cause loss to another,-
        (a) destroys, defaces, conceals or falsifies any account or any record or
        document made or required for any accounting purpose; or
        (b) in furnishing information for any purpose produces or makes use of any
        account, or any such record or document as aforesaid, which to his knowledge is
        or may be misleading, false or deceptive in a material particular;
        he shall, on conviction on indictment, be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding
        seven years.
        (2) For purposes of this section a person who makes or concurs in making in an
        account or other document an entry which is or may be misleading, false or deceptive in a
        material particular, or who omits or concurs in omitting a material particular from an
        account or other document, is to be treated as falsifying the account or document.

        18. Liability of company officers for certain offences by company

        (1) Where an offence committed by a body corporate under section 15, 16 or 17 of
        this Act is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of any director,
        manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate or any person who was
        purporting to act in any such capacity, he as well as the body corporate shall be guilty of
        that offence, and shall be liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.
        (2) Where the affairs of a body corporate are managed by its members, this section
        shall apply in relation to the acts and defaults of a member in connection with his functions
        of management as if he were a director of the body corporate.

        I know what my views are - but doesn't this seem to turn the spotlight onto firms like Cabot and Mackenzie Hall? By the 'clever' use of the text in the financial press quoted earlier in this thread they seem to be seeking to distract attention from where the REAL core question lies?

        Or, am I still crackers.......?? (answers on a postcard, please):tinysmile_twink_t2:

        Best wishes to everyone
        Dougal

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: How DCA think about debt...

          The dishonesty theft offences were repealed by the Fraud Act 2006 on 15 January 2007, see http://www.knowledgenetwork.gov.uk/H...ocument&Click= .

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How DCA think about debt...

            Good evening

            Without wishing to be clever - I knew that. BUT didn't it make you think!

            My point is simple - let's look at these people (DCA's and the like) from another viewpoint, and to that extent I think the Fraud Act 2006 is an excellent place to start, especially in relation to the following:

            Section 2. This section makes it an offence to commit fraud by false representation.
            Subsection (1)(b) requires that the person must make the representation with the intention of making a gain or causing loss or risk of loss to another. The gain or loss does not actually have to take place. The same requirement applies to conduct criminalised by sections 3 and 4. Subsection (2) defines the meaning of "false" in this context and subsection (3) defines the meaning of "representation". A representation is defined as false if it is untrue or misleading and the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading. Subsection (3) provides that a representation means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to a person's state of mind.
            Subsection (4) provides that a representation may be express or implied. It can be stated in words or communicated by conduct. There is no limitation on the way in which the representation must be expressed. So it could be written or spoken or posted on a website.
            Subsection (5) provides that a representation may be regarded as being made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention). The main purpose of this provision is to ensure that fraud can be committed where a person makes a representation to a machine and a response can be produced without any need for human involvement.

            In my opinion this applies to the post by Cabot's trained writer!

            The contents of that missive are fully within Section 2 subsection 1, [and all other subsections. ] Any thoughts anyone?

            With great respect to those who are much brighter than yours truly, it does seem to me that the CCA1974 provides no redress, via the FOS, TS or otherwise, due to their apparent inability/unwillingness to act.

            Maybe I am still potty.....?

            Best wishes to everyone,
            Dougal

            Comment

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