Help

[ricodesign4fzr]

Hi there. I think I may have found this forum a little to late for any help.

Basically 4 years ago my husband had his own business and he took out a credit agreement with GE Capital to buy a printer. About a year later the business got into difficulty & he contacted GE Capital to say he was having problems with the repayments & that unfortunately his business was going to fold. GE Capital said thats fine & said they would send someone to collect the printer & that would be the end of it. Well that is what we thought ...

Last year we received a letter totally out of the blue from a company called Go Debt, stating that they required 3295 pounds for the printer. We wrote back to them & told them that we disputed it & even if we didn't we cannot afford the money they required. WE also said we were shocked to hear from them regarding this matter because we have had no communication from G E capital in the last 4 years. Anyway Go Debt then sent us a picture of our house (a usual tatic I think for them), and told us to take out an additional mortgage for the monies owed or a loan,otherwise they would make my husband bankrupt. After numerous phone calls (this is where Go Debt use the scare tatics,never in writing), & us being very weak we said we would enter into negoiations with them with regards a repayment plan (I know now this is a wrong move when we thought we didnt owe any money, but we were going through some heavy personal problems at the time).

Anyway to cut a long story short we didnt hear anything from them for a few months & then bingo one night there is a knock on the door, my husband is served with a stat.demand. The outstanding monies now are 4300. We then put in an application to set aside the demand. Unfortunately it didnt go in our favour, even though we had paperwork to prove the printer was collected. We even contacted GE Capital to find out anymore details, but because it has now been 5 years since this happened they no longer have any records apart from the printer was collected by their agent.

Anyway my husband has now been issued with a bankrupty order for 4600, which is to be heard on the 16th.

I contacted Go Debt/Hollis briggs & told them I would do anything to stop this going to court. I informed them we are in the process of selling our house, and that we would put a charge on it & also pay a monthly amount til the house is sold. They did agree, and then said the charge would be 5700 pounds approx and that is with a discount.

I then went back to them & said I would be happy to negoiate the charge amount & that Im not happy its now 5600. I also said to Hollis briggs that Go Debt have never acknowledged that the printer was collected & the fact I know for a fact it was sold ( I have paperwork to show this of which I know they have copies). I said I wish for the amount to be taken off the amount they want. Unfortunately I dont have the amount GE Capital sold the printer for,because as I said they have no record of this.

Anyway Im still waiting for Hollis briggs/Go Debt to get back to us, but they keep delaying & we are running out of time.

I feel agrieved I have to pay for a printer I havent got & was returned, I feel agrieved that we have never heard from GE Capital to say there was a problem/outstanding debt over 5 yaers ago now, I also feel anger & upset that Go Debt have never once entered into negoiations with us & were intent from the very begining to make my husband bankrupt.

As you can imagine Im in great turmoil & have no fight left in me. Im scarred that the thought that I could loose my house over this.

[setmefree]

Re: Help

I'm not qualified in this situation bit i'm sure someone will come along soon and help

[ricodesign4fzr]

Re: Help

Any help would be appreciated.

[Curlyben]

Re: Help

For starters have a read through this: Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide - Legal Beagles

I'll be back later.

[Guest]

Re: Help

You can delay the hearing by applying to the court for a stay of proceedings.

It seems to me that there is more to this than GoDebt/Hollis Briggs care to acknowledge.

1. Was your husband's company limited or was he a sole trader?
2. If yes to the above, was the loan for the printer personally guaranteed by your husband?
3. What information did you include in your application to set aside the Stat Demand?
4. What information did you request and from whom at GE regarding this alleged debt and how did you request it?

Do not delay, apply to the court today to stay the proceedings and we can go from there.

[ricodesign4fzr]

Re: Help

Thankyou all for your help.

1. My husband was a sole trader
2. The loan was in my husbands name
3. We included all the documentation we have including emails & sent them alongside the statuary demand.
4. We requested the information from the litigation department at GE & this was done via the phone, and then they emailed us over 2 documents, one from themselves & also one from a company who collected the printer.

We will apply for a stay of proceeding tomorrow, didnt realise we could. A legal helpline I spoke to said I couldnt. Anyway thankyou, we can only hope.

[ricodesign4fzr]

Re: Help

I probably sound very stupid. Firstly with regards a stay of proceedings, do I have to download a form before I have to go to the court or is this something I have to get from the court itself?

Secondly because it is now very late in the day, im just wondering that I no you have to submit 7 days before the hearing the defense to the bankrupty, its just Im concerned that if the court dont give us a stay in proceedings then will it be to late to submit our defence?

At this moment in time I am trying to negoiate with Go Debt/Hollis briggs & I keep saying the same thing to them. I keep asking for them to acknowledge the printer & also why GE Capital never contacted us to say there was a problem. I also am concerned that the debt has now gone from 3200 pounds approx to 5600 approx. They have given me a breakdown of how it has gone up by nearly 2300 pounds & thats with a discount.

As I said previously I wouldnt even mind paying the debt if we had the goods, but for the goods to have gone 5 years ago is a complete joke.

I also think Go debt are a law to themselves, & what upsets me there are loads of forums about how badly people have been treated & yet Go debt/Hollis briggs just seem to get away with it & do what they want. I quoted them many points where I believe they have gone against the OFT's debt collection guide. I also told them the court would expect all parties 'to act reasonably ...in trying to avoid the necessity for the start of proceedings.'

I feel we were let down when this went to court & that is why I am so worried about this. I dont feel we have been heard at all & I can see injustice in this from the very start.

[Amethyst]

Re: Help

They have given me a breakdown of how it has gone up by nearly 2300 pounds & thats with a discount.



Can you post up the breakdown pls.

[ricodesign4fzr]

Re: Help

Breakdown as supplied by Hollis briggs


Judgement debt dated 07/01/08 = £4319.32 (copy supplied previously)

Petition debt dated 18/04/08 = £4556.32 (includes £237.00 for Statutory Demand costs) (copy supplied previously)



Petitioning Costs:

Attendance upon Petitioning Creditor and Letters Out; £748.00

Attendance on Debtor and Letters Out;

Attendance on Enquiry & Solicitors Agents;

Work done on documents



Petitioning Disbursements:

Enquiry Agents Fee £176.25

Local Agents Fee £88.13

Court Petition Fee £605.00

(Official Receiver Deposit of £415.00 will be returned when the Petition is withdrawn)

HM Land Registry £3.00

Bankruptcy Search Fee £4.00



Total Petitioning Costs & Disbursements: £1,624.38



£4556.32 (pd) + £1624.38 (p&d) - £415.00 (ord) - £237.00 (sd already charged) = £5528.70

[ricodesign4fzr]

Re: Help

When we heard from Go Debt last year the original amount was 3225 pounds, which isnt mentioned in there breakdown.
On the bankrupty order it state 4500 aprox.

[Amethyst]

Re: Help

Judgement debt dated 07/01/08 = £4319.32 (copy supplied previously)


Which judgement ? from the stat demand ?

[ricodesign4fzr]

Re: Help

Yes from the statutory demand.

I also missed out previous they went in the middle of december for a county court judgement. Due to the christmas post our paperwork was 2 days late. We filed for an appeal which was granted. Then 2 weeks before we went to court (even though Go Debt we had an appeal date), my husband was issued the stat demand.

On the 16th feb he went to court & then the judge only talked about how we get the stat demand set aside. He then said we would be given a new court date for the appeal once the stat demand was set aside. he said this would be about 6 weeks.

The next we knew we had a letter from the court saying the stat demand was not set aside, and that was end of.

We then tried to negoiate with Hollis briggs & then didnt hear nothing, then the bankrupty petition was served.

[ricodesign4fzr]

Re: Help

I have just contacted the court & have been told that I will have to pay a fee of 60 pounds for a stay of proceedings & 60 pounds also to oppose the bankrupty. They also said the forms are very complicated and should be filled in by a solicitor or go to the CAB. I went there before & they were no good. All they did was bring up pages from a debt site.
My husband has lost all fight in this & wants to just go ahead and let them put 5600 on our house & also pay 100 per month.
I feel so upset by this,but my husband is terrified of being made bankrupt. We have family & also it would effect his job etc.
I feel we are giving in, & I also feel that we have no way to turn. Even the court itself has been no help.
It seems in this country although we have certain laws that companies should adhere to, they dont. Then people like us they just walk all over and get away with it. We dont have the money to hire solicitors & we wouldnt be liable for legal aid either.

[Amethyst]

Re: Help

:hug:

I don;t know if going for a stat demand mid proceedings on same debt might be a bit of an abuse of process. But sounds like it should be. Whats the point of having an appeal if they can just ignore it and go for bankruptcy mid way through.

Do you have any of the documents/info you or GoDebt submitted regarding the set aside stat demand application ?

[Guest]

Re: Help

You will need to file an N244, which you can download or collect from the court. It does not need to be completed by a solicitor and is not at all complex.

Regarding the fees, you can apply, using the form EX160 for an exemption or remission as fees can be waived or at least reduced. In order to qualify for remission you need only demonstrate that if you paid the whole fee you would suffer financial hardship.

Even though you may not be exempt from paying a fee but think you would suffer financial hardship if you did pay it, you are entitled to apply for a remission. At all times Court staff must ensure that they meet the statutory obligation contained in s.92(3) of the Courts Act 2003 of protecting access to justice.

"(3) When including any provision in an order under this section, the Lord Chancellor must have regard to the principle that access to the courts must not be denied."

The exemption and remission applies to all fees, including an N244.

The test for remission is based on both income and expenditure—it takes full account of all of a person's commitments and liabilities not just how much money they have or receive.

This is not means tested, it does not matter what you earn. What matters is whether or not the fee for filing your claim will cause you financial hardship. That means right now, when you need to file it. If you do not have the money to file your claim then that qualifies you for remission.

By law you are entitled to access to justice as and when you need it - not just when you have some spare cash.

If you stay the proceedings, then there is not need to oppose the bankruptcy, because it cannot be heard until the stay is lifted. This will give you time to contest the legitimacy of the original debt and the fees that have been added.

I suggest that you serve GE with a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998 and, provided that the loan was less than £25k, I would also serve them with a request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as this may turn up information that the SAR does not.

You can do this because the debt was incurred personally and not through a limited company, therefore, the DPA applies.

While you are at it, you might as well serve GoDebt with an SAR too and find out what they have on you.

What you and your husband choose to do is of course entirely up to you, but I would caution you that GoDebt do not want a charging order and neither are they likely to settle for £100 per month. They want it all, right now and will not stop until they have it.

If you need help with the N244, or with anything else, ask.