Cabot SAR

[Gprit]

Some years ago, Cabot acquired five credit card debts I had with BOS/halifax/IF/Barclays/Lloyds. This amounted to a substantial sum and was the result of 'getting my fingers burnt' in property development. There is no entry in my Credit report for any of these amounts, or from Cabot.

For the past several years I have been paying an agreed £1/month on each account to Cabot, no payments missed or late. They seem quite happy with this and don't bother me. This amounts to the princely sum of £60 / year in reduction of the substantial debt, less whatever they spend on administration/letters etc.

I am almost seventy and have negotiated substantial debt write-offs with NatWest, Capital One and Tesco directly. Cabot would not write their debts off. With my sisters help I have tried to negotiate a settlement of £2000, (ok the total debt is around £40,000), but they keep saying no. I have pointed out to them hem that if I live to 80 they will only get £600 and to 90 they will get £1200.....and I will have no assets to leave, but they are adament I keep paying £1/month each account.

I could simply keep paying this and let it die with me, but I want a 'clean sheet'. I have requested a SAR within 40 days.
1) Assuming they respond in the timescale but do not send any signed novation agreement or original /certified copies of the original agreements bearing my signature, can they actuallly DO anything if I stop payment?
2) I am selling the modest house I have in the UK (no equity) and going to live with family in France. If I just leave the UK and don't give any French adress what would/could they do?
3) If I did either of 1 or 2 can they retrospectively place entries on my credit report?
thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: Cabot SAR

They will be aware you own a property and are possibly banking on you still having it for them to claim on if you pass on. Plus it's nice for them to have outstanding debt of £40k on their books to make them look more solvent. ( That's an extremely cynical view I know) They may get wind of you selling and try court action to obtain a charge over the property, I'm suprised they haven't already tried that, but if they are aware there is no equity it probably wasn't worth their while.

Forget the novation / certified copies rubbish btw. Send a proper CCA request ( http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...y-of-Agreement ) with a £1. If your letter included a formal request then that might still be okay but if it goes on about how you will invoice them and how you are known as Gprit from the Family Jeff - then start over xxx

Subject Access Request is a good idea so be interesting what they come back with on that, although it's only going to contain stuff since they took over the debt, nothing about how the original debt was made up. I'm sure you are aware that as long as you are paying £1 it won't go statute barred, so if /when you do stop you would have a further 6 years to wait before their right to claim dies, in which case you might be better keeping up with the £1 and hoping they don't make a move court wise..

[Gprit]

Re: Cabot SAR

The house is actually not in my name anyway and never has been..

SAR is a step to go through. I do not expect to see any assignment (apart from original letters from CC companies staing they had passed it to Cabot) or Novation.

What I DO NOT think they will produce is the original or certified true copy of the agrement that was held by the CC company...way back before 2007.

This is what I am trying to get answer to in my original posting. If I simply stop payments when no agreements are produced what CAN they do??

1) Assuming they respond in the timescale but do not send any signed novation agreement or original /certified copies of the original agreements bearing my signature, can they actuallly DO anything if I stop payment?

2) I moving from the modest house I live in in the UK (no equity) and going to live with family in France. If I just leave the UK and don't give any French adress what would/could they do?

3) If I did either of 1 or 2 can they retrospectively place entries on my credit report?

[Kati]

Re: Cabot SAR

I doubt you'll get a (deed of?) Novation ... these debts will be covered by the CCA1974, so you'd get an assignment notice (@Amethyst??). Have you sent CCA requests for them? LINK - http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...y-of-Agreement

[Diana M]

Re: Cabot SAR

As has been said you should send a formal s.77-79 CCA Request to Cabot for each of these debts. Some will have beeen credit cards (s.78) some will have been loans (s.77) and if any were bank accounts/overdrafts then s.77-79 won't apply.

However it's likely that Cabot had no idea what the debt related to when they bought the balance outstanding from the original creditor, so send a s.77-79 CCA Request to cover all bases and not give them any clues as to the debt's origins which may help them to reconstitute an agreement if they have a modicum of information to work with.

Wait for the responses to come back before making any decision on what you should do next. Make sure you enclose the £1 statutory fee with each request.

You say you have no assets and the property is not in your name, but do you have a private pension?

Di

[Gprit]

Re: Cabot SAR

Thank you for the reply.....these debts were all cc and both Step Change (who advise but not manage) and Cabot have acepted that one SAR request will cover all accounts. As you say I will await response and go from there.
....yes I DO have private pensions (as well as state) and that's the bit that concerns me if I stop payments, whether they could get deductions from those. I would add they have had income and expenditure form via Step Change in times gone past so have seen income and outgoings.

[Diana M]

Re: Cabot SAR

Cabot have acepted that one SAR request will cover all accounts.

Obviously Cabot will tell you that a SAR to them will provide you with the information they think you need, but it will not protect your legal position. Maybe that's why they are content for you to only send a SAR (I have a cynical view of debt purchasers just like Amethyst ).

A CCA Request is a legal instrument which means that if they don't comply with your formal request they can't enforce the debt in court until or unless they do. It may protect you from a CCJ (albeit it won't necessarily stop them from issuing a claim).

So at the risk of sounding bossy, you MUST send a s.77-79 CCA Request to Cabot for each and every one of these debts.

A SAR to Cabot will only reveal what they have in their files which will be of little use to you right now because they will have got very little information on your debts when they purchased them.

If you're in the mood to send a SAR then send one to the original creditor of each debt so you know the true hIstory of the account. That can prove to be invaluable for cross checking any responses you get from Cabot to your CCA Requests which may include reconstituted documents which need to withstand the 'honest and accurate' test.

Di

[Gprit]

Re: Cabot SAR

I dont mind 'bossy'(!)....The SAR request has already been sent but I WILL follow up with s.77-79 CCA Request to Cabot for each and every one of these debts. As they were all Credit card debts should it be s.78???
later:
Looking back, I did actually send a request for legible copies of the credit agreements last August which Cabot acknowledged by stating "We can confirm we have requested copies of the credit card agreements and are currently waiting for the original vendors to provide the agreements".

They did not do this within 12 days and have not done so since despite reminders.

[Kati]

Re: Cabot SAR

I dont mind 'bossy'(!)....The SAR request has already been sent but I WILL follow up with s.77-79 CCA Request to Cabot for each and every one of these debts. As they were all Credit card debts should it be s.78???

yep section 78 for credit cards :nod:

it might be an idea to send SARs to the original creditors tho' ... [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION], what do you think??

[Diana M]

Re: Cabot SAR

As they were all Credit card debts should it be s.78???

You and I know they were all credit cards but Cabot probably doesn't

So don't do anything that gives them any clues which could make it easier for them to comply with your request. Stick to 77-79 CCA.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Cabot SAR

yep section 78 for credit cards :nod:

it might be an idea to send SARs to the original creditors tho' ... @Diana M, what do you think??

Oh sorry I've just seen your last post.

I wasn't contradicting your statement that credit cards fall under s.78 (because they do) I was adding my devious plan to prevent Cabot knowing that they were credit cards.

I like to make life difficult for debt purchasers. It's my 'day job'

(and yes I did suggest sending a SAR to every creditor in a previous post)

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Cabot SAR

I dont mind 'bossy'(!)....The SAR request has already been sent but I WILL follow up with s.77-79 CCA Request to Cabot for each and every one of these debts. As they were all Credit card debts should it be s.78???
later:
Looking back, I did actually send a request for legible copies of the credit agreements last August which Cabot acknowledged by stating "We can confirm we have requested copies of the credit card agreements and are currently waiting for the original vendors to provide the agreements".

They did not do this within 12 days and have not done so since despite reminders.

You appear to have subsequently edited this post so I didn't see the "later" update.

Does this mean you have already sent Cabot formal CCA Requests with the £1 statutory fee for each debt?

If so that changes everything.

And if so don't remind or chase them. The reality is you don't actually want them to find them.

Di

[Gprit]

Re: Cabot SAR

It wasn't a FORMAL CCA request with £1 for each account, it was requested in a letter, so maybe I need to send again.
Not planning to send SAR to each original CC company as that is 5x£10....!!
.

[Diana M]

Re: Cabot SAR

...yes I DO have private pensions (as well as state) and that's the bit that concerns me if I stop payments, whether they could get deductions from those. I would add they have had income and expenditure form via Step Change in times gone past so have seen income and outgoings.

I'm glad I asked that question despite you saying you had no assets.

The rules changed on cashing in or drawing down private pensions early (partly tax free) . You may find that you can be made to release pension funds to comply with court judgments and BR obligations.

If Step Change gave Cabot your I & E details then they (Cabot) may well know you have a pension (asset).

That's why it's risky to advise someone to stop paying a debt without taking everything into account.

Ideally you navigate yourself into a position where a creditor or debt purchaser acknowledges a debt is unenforceable so runs up a white flag and closes the account.

The FCA handbook (CONC 13) tells businesses that they must inform a debtor that a debt is unenforceable if they can't comply with s.77-79 - but don't hold your breath.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Cabot SAR

It wasn't a FORMAL CCA request with £1 for each account, it was requested in a letter, so maybe I need to send again.
.

Thanks for clearing that up

So send a formal s. 77-79 CCA Request for each debt to Cabot with a £1 postal order for the statutory fee. Send it Royal Mail Recorded Delivery.

Someone on this forum can link you to a template letter that the Beagles use in this type of situation.

Good Luck with your UE journey.

Di