Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

[jon1965]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Hi Bazza
in my experience RBS DN's have never given sufficient time to remedy the default, although this is all technical and open to interpretation by a judge. PT has stated that it should have the specific wording and a date then also a date (not just x days from receipt) that allows for service . I know that at some point this changed from 7 days to 14 but I am not sure when.
An example is my DN dated 2006 which gave me 14 days from the date of this notice , not specific enough and no time for service.
I personally would stop paying them as it is the only way you will get rid of this debt however that decision has to be up to you. Unless they can actually produce an unchallengable recon and you are unable to assert that you did not sign a compliant agreement they can not win .
I don't really know how things work on here now, I have been absent with my own problems and studies for a while but I am sure a quick PM to one of the site team would point you in the right direction

Oh I have never replied to a creditor with a specific 'this is wrong' just a 'this is unenforceable because it does not comply with S78' or whatever it happens to be, why do their work for them

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Hi Bazza
in my experience RBS DN's have never given sufficient time to remedy the default, although this is all technical and open to interpretation by a judge. PT has stated that it should have the specific wording and a date then also a date (not just x days from receipt) that allows for service .

Yes, this is in accordance with s.88(2) of the CCA:

(2)A date specified under subsection (1) must not be less than14 days after the date of service of the default notice, and the creditor or owner shall not take action such as is mentioned in section 87(1) before the date so specified or (if no requirement is made under subsection (1)) before those 14 days have elapsed.

I know that at some point this changed from 7 days to 14 but I am not sure when.

Section 14 of the CCA 2006 extends the minimum period to remedy the breach from seven to 14 days.

Section 14: Default notices

36.Section 14 amends section 88 of the 1974 Act to extend from seven to 14 days the minimum period after which a creditor or owner may take action in respect of the agreement after having issued a default notice. Section 87 of the 1974 Act requires a creditor or owner to give the debtor or hirer a default notice in the prescribed form if he wishes to terminate the agreement, demand earlier payment of a sum, recover possession of any goods or land, treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred, or to enforce any security. Section 88 is also amended to allow the Secretary of State to prescribe information in the default notice to include any matters relating to the agreement (e.g. information about whether the agreement includes a term providing for the charging of post-judgment interest).

An example is my DN dated 2006 which gave me 14 days from the date of this notice , not specific enough and no time for service.
I personally would stop paying them as it is the only way you will get rid of this debt however that decision has to be up to you. Unless they can actually produce an unchallengable recon and you are unable to assert that you did not sign a compliant agreement they can not win .
I don't really know how things work on here now, I have been absent with my own problems and studies for a while but I am sure a quick PM to one of the site team would point you in the right direction

Oh I have never replied to a creditor with a specific 'this is wrong' just a 'this is unenforceable because it does not comply with S78' or whatever it happens to be, why do their work for them

I also have an RBS card from around the same time (1999). Last paid Jan 2010, sent CCA request in March 2010, response was a signed application form without anything on the back or anything further. Responded with generic account in dispute letter saying they had not complied with my request due to there not being any terms associated with the application, they responded with a recon of the terms that supposedly applied to the card. They were just a series of A4 computer printouts that obviously never belonged on the back of the form I signed. After passing it to a few DCAs in 2010-2011, I've not heard a peep about this card since Jan 2012! :tinysmile_kiss_t4:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

I sent a CCA request to DMC 30/4
Reply received 16/5 (letter dated 13/5)
Wescot advised that I should send CCA request to RBS enclosing fee.
Sent to RBS 17/5
Reply received today 8/6 (letter dated 4/6)

They regret to advise that agreement has been misfiled and unable to locate it and returned fee.
They state that they cannot enforce agreement at this time but will when able to comply with section 78 (1).
They also go on to say that the agreement is not void and that I have to continue making agreed payments, and if I do not pay which is requested on the monthly statements they will take legal action to pursue debt. RBS also included a copy (not dated) of a letter advising of my new credit card and a copy of General Terms and Conditions of the card agreement.

Is this just the standard reply ? Have they defaulted by not responding within 12+2 days ?

As they say, the account is unenforceable as long as they can't supply you with a copy of the agreement, however, once they do, then the agreement has to be assessed on its own merits.

There is also the issue of monthly statements in which I have never received anything from RBS for some years now and no yearly statements of any sort from Wescot ? Again have they not fully complied ?

I've never received any statements from RBS since defaulting in 2010. Wescot were also chasing me in 2010 or 2011 but they never bought the account, were just acting as collectors for RBS and I sent them on their merry way with a couple of dispute letters. The ended up telling me to send £1 to RBS to request a copy of my agreement. I had been there, done that so I ignore their last missive and never heard from them again.:tinysmile_kiss_t4:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

So therefore they could still enforce the debt on the back of a reconstituted agreement ?

On Carey v HSBC it was established that a recon could be used to satisfy a CCA request, however the recon had to be 'honest and accurate'.

Ok I will return to the data protection department as soon as possible, very worrying as this is not the first time.

Wescot are acting for RBS and is still a live account as I have an agreed repayment plan in place but with interest frozen.

Would a PPI claim affect any dispute ?

If you 'won' the reclaim, any redress would go towards the balance. It would reduce the debt but you wouldn't get the money, especially if the account hasn't been assigned in absolute (sold).

Since you are still making payments, you don't have to worry about a reclaim potentially having an effect on limitation if that's what you mean.

[Bazza]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Hi Bazza
in my experience RBS DN's have never given sufficient time to remedy the default, although this is all technical and open to interpretation by a judge. PT has stated that it should have the specific wording and a date then also a date (not just x days from receipt) that allows for service . I know that at some point this changed from 7 days to 14 but I am not sure when.
An example is my DN dated 2006 which gave me 14 days from the date of this notice , not specific enough and no time for service.
I personally would stop paying them as it is the only way you will get rid of this debt however that decision has to be up to you. Unless they can actually produce an unchallengable recon and you are unable to assert that you did not sign a compliant agreement they can not win .
I don't really know how things work on here now, I have been absent with my own problems and studies for a while but I am sure a quick PM to one of the site team would point you in the right direction

Oh I have never replied to a creditor with a specific 'this is wrong' just a 'this is unenforceable because it does not comply with S78' or whatever it happens to be, why do their work for them

Thank-you so much jon and I will perhaps ask and PM someone of the current situation. I might deit what they sent and post up, then decide.

As for default notices, are you saying that they must give you an actual date and not 7 or 14 days ? It's just that i have some other issues with the same bank regarding their wording.

Comments also noted re responding to creditors :tinysmile_twink_t2:

Regards

Bazza

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Thank-you so much jon and I will perhaps ask and PM someone of the current situation. I might deit what they sent and post up, then decide.

As for default notices, are you saying that they must give you an actual date and not 7 or 14 days ? It's just that i have some other issues with the same bank regarding their wording.

Yes, the DN should give an actual date to remedy the breach, which should be MORE THAN 14 days from the date printed on the notice, to allow for service.

Having said that, a defective DN is a card you should keep up your sleeve, ready to play if court proceedings are issued, rather than an argument to put the account into dispute with RBS, even more so if the account hasn't been sold to a debt purchaser.

[Bazza]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Yes, the DN should give an actual date to remedy the breach, which should be MORE THAN 14 days from the date printed on the notice, to allow for service.

Having said that, a defective DN is a card you should keep up your sleeve, ready to play if court proceedings are issued, rather than an argument to put the account into dispute with RBS, even more so if the account hasn't been sold to a debt purchaser.

Thanks Flaming Parrot

Sorry for another question but does it matter how old the default notice actually is ?

I'm sure I have a few that don't correctly state any dates apart from the mention of 7/14 days.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Thanks Flaming Parrot

Sorry for another question but does it matter how old the default notice actually is ?

I'm sure I have a few that don't correctly state any dates apart from the mention of 7/14 days.

s.14 of the CCA 2006 came into force in October 2006: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...chedule/2/made

PROVISIONS COMING INTO FORCE ON 1ST OCTOBER 2006
Provisions Subject Matter of Provisions
Section 14(1) Substitution of 14 days for seven days where it occurs in section 88 of the 1974 Act (contents and effect of default notice)

[Bazza]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

s.14 of the CCA 2006 came into force in October 2006: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...chedule/2/made

Many Thanks again Parrot.

I will try and find some DN details and perhaps I may edit and post up for any comments regarding legality.

I know of two in respect of bank loan / current account overdraft in which covering letter dated 13 Jan 2006 giving 28 days notice on or after 3 February 2006 (default on CRF April 2006). Cannot see any other mention of dates.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Many Thanks again Parrot.

I will try and find some DN details and perhaps I may edit and post up for any comments regarding legality.

I know of two in respect of bank loan / current account overdraft in which covering letter dated 13 Jan 2006 giving 28 days notice on or after 3 February 2006 (default on CRF April 2006). Cannot see any other mention of dates.

Are these not SBd? Have you still been making payments? They always had to provide a date rather than a number of days but the 14 days would apply after the amendment came into force, so it would not be applicable for DNs issued before Oct 1st 2006.

Bear in mind (may have said this before) that a defective DN isn't a reason to dispute the account as such, it would come in handy if they issued court papers though.