Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit files

[MrsTandtheMISTER]

Hi All,
I'm new here, and have a (hopefully brief) question about Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors.

My OH has been paying an 'IVA' for the entirety of our relationship, (5 years). We recently applied for a rented house, and did a quick check on his credit report to see if we would need a guarantor. His credit file is completely clear. No IVA, no debt AT ALL apart from his current credit card and phone contract.

I asked him what happened to the IVA he's been paying and which insolvency practitioner he's been paying, he said he has been making payments to Robinson Way and Fairfax! I then checked the insolvency register for the IVA, and there is NOTHING registered in my husbands name.

SO I now wonder what on earth he has been paying for at least 5 years?! He did default on the original IVA, so I can only assume the DCA's purchased the debt, and convinced OH to set up a payment plan, but I have no idea why he's paying TWO agencies. Ive found a letter from RobWay and it says the account is for an ex Egg credit card, but this was all part of OH's IVA.

I'm not sure what to do from here, there is no trace of any debt owed by OH, and I don't want him to continue paying RobWay and Fairfax if we don't know what he's paying.

I did consider starting the three letter process, but have decided against it after doing some reading on here. (Thank you!) I'm wary of opening a huge can of worms by unsettling the current arrangement and am just after a bit of advice.

Thank you all in advance.

MrsTandtheMISTER

[nemesis45]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Hi Welcome to LB,

Can you add a little more detail please.

1. What is the underlying debt, i.e the name of the original creditor? Is this definitely EGG?
2. What was the amount owing originally?
3. How much per month is being paid?
4. Are you receiving statements at least once a year?

If Mr T has been paying both Robinson Way and Fairfax for the same alleged debt something is seriously wrong.
I agree that payments should stop immediately and should not be restarted until the situation is made clear.

I suggest a letter to both parties collecting payments requiring them to (a) provide exact details of the alleged debt. (b) A fully itemised breakdown of payments. (c) the alleged current balance according to Fairfax & RW.
I would cease payments to both parties and address this as a formal complaint to both, stating the payments have been stopped until all the information has been provided.

A Formal Complaint requires the recipient to fully investigate and respond within 56 days, after which if the response is not forthcoming or is unacceptable you can take the case to the appropriate regulatory body.

Should you need help with the letter (s) I would be happy to help with a draft.

nem

[MrsTandtheMISTER]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Hi Nem,

Thank you for your quick response.

I don't really know too much about it, aprt from what OH has mentioned, but I've found some more letters in his paperwork

1. What is the underlying debt, i.e the name of the original creditor? Is this definitely EGG? The RW one seems to be for egg, the Fairfax one seems to be on behalf of Max Recovery for loans a barclaycard and a CC (possibly loan) for HSBC.
2. What was the amount owing originally? no idea, but totals on Rw letters £1487.15 to pay, £1007.63 for one of the fairfax accounts (letter dated July 2013) and the barclaycard one was at £11588.85 in April 2012. There arent any more recent letters from Fairfax or max recover.
3. How much per month is being paid? £5 per month to Robinson Way, not sure how much to Fairfax, I assume £10 as he says he pays out £15 per month.
4. Are you receiving statements at least once a year? I cant find anything more recent than July 2013 from Fairfax, but there is an early settlement offer letter from Robinson Way dated 6/12/14.

Sorry I'm not much help, I always just assumed he paid an insolvency practitioner so I've never looked through any statements or anything, I've just gone through what I could find.

It appears that he had various CC's that he couldnt keep up with, so he took out more, I've found statements and letters for Egg and Mint, but cant find any original statements for Barclaycard or HSBC that Fairfax seem to be collecting for.
NONE of these debts appear on his credit file?! Its all so confusing.

I'll tell him to stop payments immediately, but he is certain there is another DCA that he used to get letters from that he hasnt had since we moved house previously (3 years ago) so he's worried this will come back too.

Poor guy, he didnt really know what he was doing by the looks of it, it all looks a complete mess and he just buried his head until he couldnt anymore then he just paid what he could to whoever was asking.

Thanks for your help.

[jon1965]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

To me it sounds as if there are at least 2 different debts so if that is the case complaints at this stage are not appropriate. I am also guessing that when the IVA failed he went back into an ordinary payment arrangement.

If you have account numbers I would be sending CCA requests to both or if you think that one is for more than one debt either multiple CCA's or a prove it letter. They might play silly buggers and say as he has been paying this etc etc, a possible solution is for him to authorise you to act on his behalf so you can legitimately say you need to sort out his liabilities hence....


I hope that helps

P.S Do not be fooled by people who say if its not on the credit file you don't owe it as if he has been paying it AND there is an enforceable agreement then he is still liable. For now fact find then make a decision from there.

You could stop payments however before I did I would be wanting to get a CCA request off , up to you

[nemesis45]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Hello Mrs T.
The probability is that all these accounts have now been removed from credit reference file after six years have elapsed since the date the account was defaulted ( this happen paid or not).

Dealing with this double payment will be with those to businesses and will not affect anything else.
If his credit file is clear of defaults and only has current up to date commitments there really is nothing to be concerned about once an account has been removed from CRA files it Can Never Be Put Back!
Any court action must be started within 6 years of the cause of action which in this instance we can take that as being the default date.
The exception is the debt (EGG) still being paid all be wrongly to two separate companies and any others he may made the odd payment to in the last 6 years.
If you want a draft letter please let me know.

BTW the " Three Letter" Process is a nonsense and will achieve nothing, it's just stems from the notoriously daft " Freemen on/of the Land" theorists and is discredited nationally and internationally.

nem

[nemesis45]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Hello Jon,
I wondered when you would pop up again.

Mr T's problem here is that one debt is being repaid to both Fairfax and Robinson Way ( for approx. 5 years).
There are no other payments being made and Mr T's Credit Files are totally clean.

No one is chasing any payments.

nem

[jon1965]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Nem it would appear that the money owing is to egg and barclaycard which may or maynot be the same and HSBC which is definitely different. Until the facts have been established no one can say with certainty how many accpunts there are. Hence the fact find cca prove it letters.

[MrsTandtheMISTER]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Hi All,

So sorry for the silence.

To clarify, OH is currently paying TWO separate companies, for at least 3 different creditors; Robinson Way are receiving payments for an Egg card (£5 per month) and Fairfax solicitors are receiving ONE payment (£10?) for debts owed to HSBC and Barclaycard. OH thinks there are more Debt Collection Agents out there that sent letters previously, but haven't been in touch in the last three years (more than likely chasing for a debt on a mint card - as I said, he got in a big mess!)

What is a CCA? If the debts are removed from his credit file after 6 years regardless of whether he pays them or not, I guess he should carry on paying as it will be a debt that he still owes from a long time ago, except it is just a debt owed to a different company now?

I did have my suspicions about the three letters, I have seen posts on the page where it has worked, but then there are others who have got themselves into serious trouble. I'm not trying to get out of paying a debt, I was just concerned that there is no record on his file of what he is paying and who to, but as Nem points out, this is because the debts are more than 6 years old.

[nemesis45]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Where debts exist after the entries have been removed from credit files and no payments have been made in 6 years and no party is chasing them it is best to ignore them as they do no harm to a credit profile.
Where debts exist after removal from credit files and payments are being made or have been made in the last 6 years it is wrong to continue payments without establishing what is allegedly still out standing and the viability of the underlying credit agreement.

A CCA request to the entity to which payments are being made i.e. a request made in accordance with sections 77/78/79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and accompanied by the £1.00 statutory fee for provision of the agreement for the account.
The CCA 1974 allows 12 + 2 Working days to comply.

Each creditor/DCA must supply a statement of the accounts they hold at least once a year.

Perhaps the CCA requests for the debts held by Fairfax ( on whose behalf are Fairfax collecting the £10 payment?) and to Robinson Way for the Egg account are I think the next course of action, ( I feel that there is some element of " cash cowing " here). You will need to send a cheque or postal order for £1 for each account ( endorse cheque or PO " For Statutory Fee Only".

If you need addresses please come back to me and I'll find them for you.

nem

[jon1965]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Hi
This is a copy of a CCA request. nem and I disagree on this but I always say sign digitally i.e in a fancy font and do not sign the actual letter, there is no requirement in law for it to be signed.
I always sent mine by Royal mail signed for as this does provide proof that they have received it although I suspect a free proof of posting is enough.
I do not encourage engaging on the telephone however if you are not sure of account numbers or who the original creditors were a call asking those questions may be appropriate.
I personally dislike the phrase cash cow as it implies you have done something wrong, you are trying your best to repay the debt however I do say that if the banks can not , with all their resources , provide an agreement that complies with the Consumer Credit Act then they only have themselves to blame if they don't get paid. After all they have huge compliance departments whose job it is to make sure that they act within the law.

Dear Sir or Madam

Re:− Account/Reference Number

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78/79(delete as appropriate) of the consumer credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request; the provisions of s.77(4)a/78(6)a/79(3)a(delete as appropriate) will apply.


(DELETE THIS BELOW IF YOU ARE SENDING THE LETTER TO THE ORIGNAL CREDITOR AS OPPOSED TO A debt collection AGENCY)

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

Your attention is drawn to ss.5 (2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the ConsumerProtection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

SIGN OR print your name DIGITALLY

[MrsTandtheMISTER]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Thank you both very much. If we send the CCA letters, at least we will know for sure exactly what he is paying and how much he has left to pay. If we do not received a copy of the credit agreement, what happens then? And what do we do with the copy of the agreement when we have it? Sorry for all the questions.
I hope we're not 'cash cowing', I just want to check exactly what he's been paying for, as there doesnt seem to be a predicted end date for the payments to stop, so he may well end up paying £15 a month forever and a day unless we find out exactly what its for.

[jon1965]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Once you send the CCA request , in my experience you will receive either
a) A letter saying they can not locate the agreement at present but will continue looking -at this point you could stop paying ( I would) until they provide it
b) they could send you a recon of the original agreement , now depending on the quality of the recon really tells you your options. When I asked for recons for my late ex wife they sent me ones with her last address, luckily we had been close enough that I knew when she took out the credit which was at a different address
c) They will send you an agreement and everything else, then you need to examine it and see if it is enforceable

If they do provide an enforceable agreement there are other options surrounding default notices, termination or even asking if they hold the original especially if you can give evidence as to why you could not have signed the agreement they have sent.

Hopefully at least one of them will not be able to provide, my guess would be egg

When you get them back, copy and redact (or using editing software) and post up. Someone, maybe FP will look and pass comment

I wish you luck

P.S If you are looking to buy time it is not that difficult to wrap them up in circles.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

What is a CCA? If the debts are removed from his credit file after 6 years regardless of whether he pays them or not, I guess he should carry on paying as it will be a debt that he still owes from a long time ago, except it is just a debt owed to a different company now?

The defaults do drop off regardless, the main thing to be aware of is that debts don't go statute barred as long as payments are being made.

I did have my suspicions about the three letters, I have seen posts on the page where it has worked, but then there are others who have got themselves into serious trouble.

To clarify, the three letters you are referring to have nothing to do with the CCA request you've sent, nor is that a method we endorse or recommend on this site. The system works with some DCAs who just pass on the debt but you are right to say that it can get you into trouble, especially if you ever ended up in court, you'd have a hard time explaining those letters to a judge. :incourt:

I'm not trying to get out of paying a debt, I was just concerned that there is no record on his file of what he is paying and who to, but as Nem points out, this is because the debts are more than 6 years old.

We have no problem with anyone not paying, I've not paid mine since 2010. :grin: We just want to make sure you deal with this in the best possible way. :thumb:

[MrsTandtheMISTER]

Re: Paying Robinson Way and Fairfax Solicitors for a 'debt' not showing on credit fil

Once you send the CCA request , in my experience you will receive either
a) A letter saying they can not locate the agreement at present but will continue looking -at this point you could stop paying ( I would) until they provide it
b) they could send you a recon of the original agreement , now depending on the quality of the recon really tells you your options. When I asked for recons for my late ex wife they sent me ones with her last address, luckily we had been close enough that I knew when she took out the credit which was at a different address
c) They will send you an agreement and everything else, then you need to examine it and see if it is enforceable

If they do provide an enforceable agreement there are other options surrounding default notices, termination or even asking if they hold the original especially if you can give evidence as to why you could not have signed the agreement they have sent.

Hopefully at least one of them will not be able to provide, my guess would be egg

When you get them back, copy and redact (or using editing software) and post up. Someone, maybe FP will look and pass comment

I wish you luck

P.S If you are looking to buy time it is not that difficult to wrap them up in circles.

Hi Jon,

Thank you so much. When we are moved house and back up and running, I will get onto sending the CCA requests to Robinson Way and Fairfax, I guess the best outcome is that they don't have the agreements proving that the debt is still owed, and we can stop paying them and focus on the debts that I do definitely owe that are on a DMP.