nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

[nods]

I'm in a similar boat but with a mobile phone bill I know nothing about. Lowell portfolio have issued a ccj, i have replied to the ccj stating I intend to defend the claim. I want to write a 'prove it letter' to them but I know that cca doesn't apply. Does anyone have a good template for this?

Many thanks.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: please help got claim form from county court today

I'm in a similar boat but with a mobile phone bill I know nothing about. Lowell portfolio have issued a ccj, i have replied to the ccj stating I intend to defend the claim. I want to write a 'prove it letter' to them but I know that cca doesn't apply. Does anyone have a good template for this?

Presumably you got a CLAIM FORM, not a CCJ! :scared: A CCJ would be if they succeeded in obtaining judgment. :nono:

The prove it letter is not a CCA request, it can be used for any debts you don't know about, whether CCA regulated or not. However, once they have issued a claim, you wouldn't be send a prove it letter. The way I see it, you have two options:

1. You could send a request for documents mentioned on their particulars of claim under CPR 31.14 or
2. If you are 100% positive that this is not your debt, you never had the mobile contract in question, then you could just submit a bare denial defence.

[nods]

Re: please help got claim form from county court today

My bad, it was a claim form. Would it be better to deny the debt and ask for proof at the same time. Is there a template letter for asking for the 'particulars of the claim under CPR 31.14'? Many thanks.

Can someone advise on how to start my own thread?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: please help got claim form from county court today

My bad, it was a claim form. Would it be better to deny the debt and ask for proof at the same time. Is there a template letter for asking for the 'particulars of the claim under CPR 31.14'? Many thanks.

The particulars of claim would have been on the claim form you received. You can ask for documents mentioned on the PoC using the letter below. Normally they'd mention an agreement, a default and assignment, which is what the letter below requests. The letter should be sent recorded delivery. They have 7 days to respond or you can ask for an extension to file your defence.

Dear Sirs,

Re: XXXX v YYYYY
Case No: xxxx

CPR 31.14 Request

On [DATE] I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest your entire claim.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1. The Agreement. Together with the relevant terms associated with that account, you will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.
2. The notice of assignment.
3. The default notice, compliant with 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Although your claim is for a sum which does not exceed £10,000.00 and thus in all likelihood it will be allocated to the small claims track once I deliver my defence, however as I am unable to lodge my defence at this moment, the case has not been allocated to a track for determination upon delivering a defence, as a consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) have no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing as a result to a modification, obliteration or othermarking, or feature, each version thus will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any, and all version(s) and include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) that are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

Can someone advise on how to start my own thread?

As we have already been posting on this one, I've asked Site Admin to create a new thread with our posts. :thumb:

[nods]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

Thank you so much. Will put that in the post this afternoon. I received the claim on the 08/01 and acknowledged it on the 15/01. How long do I have to defend to the claim. Can I defend it in the mean time by writing something like:

I have know knowledge of the debt and dispute the debt and the claimants entitlement to pursue for me for the alleged monies owed. 
I have written to claimant asking for particulars to prove the debt under CPR 31.14 and am awaiting reply. 
The claimant should comply with there CPR31 duties and reply by issuing me with copies of the following within 7 days of receiving my request. 
1. The agreement.2. The notice of assignment.3. The default notice (compliant with 87(1) of the consumer credit act 1974)  The request was posted on the 22 January 2014 by recorded mail.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

Thank you so much. Will put that in the post this afternoon. I received the claim on the 08/01 and acknowledged it on the 15/01. How long do I have to defend to the claim. Can I defend it in the mean time by writing something like:

I have know knowledge of the debt and dispute the debt and the claimants entitlement to pursue for me for the alleged monies owed. 
I have written to claimant asking for particulars to prove the debt under CPR 31.14 and am awaiting reply. 
The claimant should comply with there CPR31 duties and reply by issuing me with copies of the following within 7 days of receiving my request. 
1. The agreement.2. The notice of assignment.3. The default notice (compliant with 87(1) of the consumer credit act 1974)  The request was posted on the 22 January 2014 by recorded mail.

No, if you are requesting documents, you shouldn't submit a defence yet. You have 28 days from the date the claim was served, to submit a defence, and if the claimants don't provide them within 7 days as stated on the CPR letter, you have the right to ask them to agree to an extension of up to 28 days. At that point, you could make a decision to submit a defence, but not just as yet. I assume you stated your intention to defend when you ticked the boxes on the form, that should be enough for now.

Keep an eye on the timescales, if you don't receive a response by the end of next week, then you should phone them and ask them to agree to an extension under CPR 15.5.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

This is the relevant part of the Practice Direction that relates to filing defences:

Consequence of not filing a defence

15.3 If a defendant fails to file a defence, the claimant may obtain default judgment if Part 12 allows it.

The period for filing a defence

15.4
(1) The general rule is that the period for filing a defence is –

(a) 14 days after service of the particulars of claim; or
(b) if the defendant files an acknowledgment of service under Part 10, 28 days after service of the particulars of claim.

(Rule 7.4 provides for the particulars of claim to be contained in or served with the claim form or served within 14 days of service of the claim form)
(2) The general rule is subject to the following rules –
(a) rule 6.35 (which specifies how the period for filing a defence is calculated where the claim form is served out of the jurisdiction under rule 6.32 or 6.33);
(b) rule 11 (which provides that, where the defendant makes an application disputing the court’s jurisdiction, the defendant need not file a defence before the hearing);
(c) rule 24.4(2) (which provides that, if the claimant applies for summary judgment before the defendant has filed a defence, the defendant need not file a defence before the summary judgment hearing); and
(d) rule 6.12(3) (which requires the court to specify the period for responding to the particulars of claim when it makes an order under that rule).

Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

15.5
(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.
(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.

[nods]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

I have had a standard template response from BC. it sais:

We write further to your recent letter requesting disclosure under part 31 of the Civil procedure Rules.

We confirm the Claim Form was issued by the Northampton County Court Bulk Centre and the Court's Protocol was followed when issuing the Claimants particulars of claim. Practice direction 7c point 1,4 (3A) eliminates the requirement to attach the documents to the Particulars of claim they are issued by this court.

We confirm the matter will most properly be allocated to the small claims track as this is a simple contractual matter and part 31 of the civil procedure rules will therefore not apply.
 
In any event the Notices of default and assignment left the control of the claimant when they were dispatched to you.
 
It is the original creditors policy to issue agreements at the start of the contract and statements throughout the duration of the agreement and, in this regard, we ask you refer to your own records. 

We conform we are not agreeable to an extension for filing your defense.
 
We confirm that we are in receipt of your acknowledgment of service. As you will be aware a claim was issued in this matter on 7 January 2014. Please respond to the claim using the response pack provided by the court. You should comply  with the deadlines outlined by the court in order to avoid a default judgment being entered against you.
 
We recommend you seek independent legal advice.

Yours Sincerely

BRYAN CARTER

Any ideas on how to progress from here? he is basically refusing to prove the debt correct?

Many thanks.

[NotPaying]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

Practice direction 7c point 1,4 (3A) eliminates the requirement to attach the documents to the Particulars of claim in paragraph 7.3 of Practice Direction 16 but not the rest of it - and the original(s) should be available at the hearing.
So you could go for asking for the original(s) to be available at the hearing, would be interesting if they produced a reconstituted original at the hearing.

[nods]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

do they need to produce me the originals if I ask for them?

[nods]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

Has anyone had this letter before? How did you reply?

Many thanks.

[nods]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

Can someone please help? I need file MY defence soon and sure how to proceed. BC HAS basically refused to prove the debt and allow me to extend the time I have to file defence. Where do I go from here? Many thanks.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

Can someone please help? I need file MY defence soon and sure how to proceed. BC HAS basically refused to prove the debt and allow me to extend the time I have to file defence. Where do I go from here? Many thanks.

It would all depend on whether you really had this debt or not.

If it's not your debt, then a bare denial would do. However, if this is for a mobile contract you had in the past, then you can't just say you have no knowledge of this debt because that would amount to lying to the court. :scared:

There are lots of similar threads on this forum where the same firm has refused an extension as well as not supplying documents. Some have submitted a defence and others have opted for an unless order, however, most of those people are being sued for debts they actually had. If you never had this mobile contract, then you wouldn't want to be applying for an unless order.

[nods]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

If you never had this mobile contract, then you wouldn't want to be applying for an unless order.

Sorry for being a bit thick, but what is a unless order? And why wouldn't I want to use one if I the debt wasn't mine. I have had a contract with 3 mobile in a past and cancelled due to a dispute about charges of approx £30 and poor service. But I just paid the balance and cancelled my contract. This was some time ago (approx 3-4 years) and I can't prove anything.

If I do owe them anything it has been heavily inflated (they are now claiming £400).

I thought I could put the ball in their court and demand that they prove the debt and if they couldn't their claim would be void. Is this not correct? The letter they sent me (above) doesn't prove anything. does it?

Would a bare face denial be more appropriate in this case? If so what would I need to say to cover the bases? or

would a 'unless order' be best? if so how the hell do I do one of those?

Are there any templates or guidelines for the above?

Many thanks.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: nods v lowells - court claim mobile phone debt??

Sorry for being a bit thick, but what is a unless order?

And why wouldn't I want to use one if I the debt wasn't mine. I have had a contract with 3 mobile in a past and cancelled due to a dispute about charges of approx £30 and poor service. But I just paid the balance and cancelled my contract. This was some time ago (approx 3-4 years) and I can't prove anything.

The post quoted below explains the orders. The idea is, if you never had the contract, then you can just say so, DCAs sometimes get the wrong person. Why would you apply for disclosure when you know there's nothing to disclose? An N244 application costs £80 unless you qualify for a remission.

You need th n244 form http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...181#post276181 is how you fill it in.


You need the draft order to go with it http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ht=#post402292


You need your witness statement to tell the story of getting the claim and all the steps you took to obtain disclosure of the documents from sending the letter and any subsequent enquiries you made including asking for an extension to the time for filing your defence and their refusal along the lines of http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...857#post404857


M1