HSBC and DG Solicitors

[chris9478]

Hi all... I'm after a little advise re a debt to HSBC. The debt is in excess of £18K and stems from a refinance loan to consolidate a previous loan, credit card and overdraft. I think it was refinanced during 2007 and that I actually made payments towards it. After my marriage broke down in 2009, I asked the bank to extend the loan period which they refused so I stopped paying. I didn't hear anything until December 2011 when I had to attend my local court taking with me details of my incomings and outgoings. As they didn't attend the court officer took copies of everything and forwarded it on to them. As I was heavily pregnant she advised them of my situation and I received a letter off DG Solicitors saying that they would review the situation in 6mths. In December 2012 I received a letter asking me to contact them, which I did. I explained that I hadn't returned to work after my pregnancy as I had been made redundant and was in the process of claiming benefits. At this point I'm a single mother with four children under the age of 9. They refused to accept a token monthly payment (of which I could barely afford) and wanted payments of £900 a month!!!

On 2nd December, 2013 I received a letter asking me to contact them within 48 hours, I wrote them a letter explaining that my situation still had not changed. Yesterday morning (17/12/13) I received a letter off them saying that their client now has a Final Charging Order over my property and as I have failed to pay the outstanding judgement debt, they are consulting with their client on the question of taking further enforcement action...

I am part owner (with my ex husband) of a property. When we separated he kept the house and I moved out with the children. Financially he has always paid the mortgage and he certainly has since we split. I have no interest in the house but don't wish to "screw" him out of it either... I actually like him since we divorced!!!

My questions are:

1) What exactly is a charging order?
2) Is there a risk of my ex-husband losing his house?
3) Could they have got a charging order in a matter of weeks? and Do they not need to notify me so that I can appeal the request?
4) What can I do about this seeing as they won't accept offers of payment of which I could manage? At this moment in time I could afford £75-100/month, not the £900+ that they're demanding.

Thanks in advance for any replies received

[chris9478]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

Can anyone help with this please?

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

Hi Chris

Sorry I missed this yesterday, just having a read xx

Sharon

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

Okay

Have you been receiving documents from the court regarding this matter, or from the land registry ?

You have a CCJ already, in December 2011, - so received a court claim and made an offer to pay in installments (ie the income and expenditure sheets you filled out at the court) - do you have a copy of the judgment at all ? Did you have an installment order with permission to apply for a charging order ?

[chris9478]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

Hi Sharon, Thanks for the reply!!

Firstly, I wasn't aware that I had a CCJ as a result of the court visit in Dec 2011... Shows my inexperience at this sort of business!! I did take with me an I&E form as requested by the court and as I was on maternity pay at the time the Court Officer advised the solicitors that I was unable to make an offer of payment that I'd be able to maintain.

I haven't received a thing from the court since this time. I've not received anything from Land Registry either... although I assume this would go to the address where my ex husband lives (the property with the charging order on) but I know he would (and does) give me any mail for me that still goes there.

I'm really concerned they're going to force sale on the house!! He lives there with his fiancée, her two children and their baby... Plus he also has our children to stop over at weekends and needs a house to do this!!

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

Okay, you need to ask your ex if he has had any paperwork at the house for you. To have a final charging order you would have an interim charging order first, and the land registry should write to tell you of this.

There should also have been court documents, a claim, and chance for you to make an offer of payment or defend the claim. Can I ask what prompted you to go to the court to sort out your income expenditure ?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

I am part owner (with my ex husband) of a property. When we separated he kept the house and I moved out with the children. Financially he has always paid the mortgage and he certainly has since we split. I have no interest in the house but don't wish to "screw" him out of it either... I actually like him since we divorced!!!

My questions are:

1) What exactly is a charging order?

It's a way to secure an unsecured debt against property once judgment has been obtained. When the debt is in a sole name and the property is jointly owned as per your case, they can only record a restriction. There is quite a lengthy discussion on the subject here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=1839539

2) Is there a risk of my ex-husband losing his house?

No, they cannot repossess to enforce a charging order. In theory, a creditor could apply to the court for an order for sale (to force the sale of the property) but those are very unlikely to be granted by the courts, and hardly ever applied for unless the debtor refuses to make any repayment offer.

3) Could they have got a charging order in a matter of weeks? and Do they not need to notify me so that I can appeal the request?

They have to record an interim charging order first, and the Land Registry would notify you if they had. Once the interim order has been recorded, there will be a court hearing to decide whether to grant a final CO. See this: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan...der_being_made

4) What can I do about this seeing as they won't accept offers of payment of which I could manage? At this moment in time I could afford £75-100/month, not the £900+ that they're demanding.

Thanks in advance for any replies received

Once there's a CCJ in place, any repayments have to be agreed to the court. If they obtained a forthwith judgment, you can apply for a redetermination to an installment order. If you have an installment order you can apply for a variation order to pay what you can afford. You will need to submit and income and expenditure form to back up your repayment offer. You may need to pay a court fee but they can be remitted under certain circumstances.

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

A final charging order is to secure the debt for the lenders. It won't usually end with a sale order, especially as the property is a family home. It should sit on the land registry until you/your ex husband decide to sell the house, then the mortgage will be paid up first, then the charge from this debt, then any left over will come to you/your ex husband.

Have you sorted out ownership of the house legally, in divorce proceedings / consent order etc.

The letters you have had from DG solicitors have they made reference to a court judgment at all ?

[chris9478]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

Ok thanks for the replies, I now understand about charging orders and it's a relief to know they don't usually end up with a sale order!!

Firstly, we agreed nothing with regards to the house in the divorce. We have an agreement, between ourselves, that he keeps the house, maintains the mortgage and when the children are old enough the house will be signed over to them. This is all unofficial, although the mortgage company are aware off it. The ex is having papers drawn up to this effect and when that is done I would come off the mortgage. I doubt this will be possible now though with a charging order in place.

I went to court in December 2011 as I received a "summons" (I forget the actual term they used), took all paperwork as requested and then it progresses as above.

I have spoke to the ex and there is definitely no further paperwork at his house. I've just gone through my paperwork and I found a Attachment of Earnings Order issued from the Courts, dated February 2012. The order was in the sum of £10 per week with instructions to not deduct any money if my net pay was below £800 per month. As I was on maternity leave, not deductions were ever made. I was made redundant in August 2012 and have not had an employers since.

Would it be an idea to ring DG Solicitors and offer them £10 per week as this is what the Order from the Court was?

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

It might be wise to type up the letter your received from DG yesterday regarding further enforcement action firstly.

I assume you aren't all that fussed about having a CCJ - it sounds as though they obtained a default judgment against you, then applied for attachment of earnings order, then applied to secure the debt via charging order. There should certainly have been something from the court - where did the summons for the AOE and from DG solicitors go to - your current address ?

If you do have a copy of the judgment order then if you can post that up that would be good.

[chris9478]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

I'm sooo not bothered about having a CCJ... My debt got massively overwhelming and although I've managed to sort most out there is this one and another one which is under a separate post) that I'm still dealing with. These days I live on cash, if I want it and can't afford it, I go without!! I privately rent and my landlord is fine with me being on benefits as long as I pay him on time.

The AoE order came to my address and I've checked my files (which are up to date and in order) and there is no other paperwork.

I'll ask the solicitor to send me copies of all paperwork reference the charging notice, if just for my files and nothing else.

I've just received another letter off them this morning reference my letter I sent to them where I asked if they would consider writing the debt off (cheeky I know!!). They've said that their client is not in a position to write it off but are understanding of my situation and would be willing to discuss a repayment in respect of the outstanding amount with a debt counselling service if I would give them permission??

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

It's excellent you aren't letting this stress you out, you sound absolutely on top of things which is the best place to be. I'd be a little worried about the court papers not arriving and yes it is a good idea to ask for copies as you haven't received anything. You can check the land registry to see if the charge has been registered on yours & ex husbands property ( http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/publi...erty-ownership ) which costs £3.

A debt counselling service (such as stepchange ) would be free to you and would only suggest you pay an affordable sum which sounds like it would be the £10 you were ordered to pay by attachment of earnings through the court, it might take it off of your shoulders, although I'd prefer to stay in complete control (have a look at http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/dmp.asp ) , many lenders won't accept low payments even if backed up with your own income/expenditure sheets - it is insane they are badgering you for £900 a month when they have an AOE of £10 going unpaid because you aren't working.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: HSBC and DG Solicitors

Ok thanks for the replies, I now understand about charging orders and it's a relief to know they don't usually end up with a sale order!!

You'll find plenty of charging orders but orders for sale are as rare as hen's teeth! :grin:

Firstly, we agreed nothing with regards to the house in the divorce. We have an agreement, between ourselves, that he keeps the house, maintains the mortgage and when the children are old enough the house will be signed over to them. This is all unofficial, although the mortgage company are aware off it. The ex is having papers drawn up to this effect and when that is done I would come off the mortgage. I doubt this will be possible now though with a charging order in place.

I went to court in December 2011 as I received a "summons" (I forget the actual term they used), took all paperwork as requested and then it progresses as above.

I have spoke to the ex and there is definitely no further paperwork at his house. I've just gone through my paperwork and I found a Attachment of Earnings Order issued from the Courts, dated February 2012. The order was in the sum of £10 per week with instructions to not deduct any money if my net pay was below £800 per month. As I was on maternity leave, not deductions were ever made. I was made redundant in August 2012 and have not had an employers since.

Would it be an idea to ring DG Solicitors and offer them £10 per week as this is what the Order from the Court was?

No, it's not a good idea to ring anyone, keep everything in writing. The creditor would have had to go back to the court to apply for an Attachment of Earnings, this usually only happens when no payments are made towards a CCJ. What was the original amount ordered by the court?