Oh dear, I need help

[Fluftytufty]

Hiya. I used to get tax credits, I think the last payment was about 2007-2008. I was overpaid, they wrote out telling me so, I wrote back with how much I could pay back a month. They refused it, I wrote to them and phoned with another suggestion, they never got back to me.

Over time I forgot about it, then at the end of July I got a letter saying I owed them approx £3600. I didn't get to ring them until October (I've just had a baby and moved house). They told me that they had given it on to a debt collection agency. I told them that I tried to sort it with them a few times, they basically said, tough.

I do not want to contact these people, I'm afraid in case I end up either paying a fortune or living off air and water (or both). Both of us work but my maternity ends in January and I can't afford to work (childcare is more than my wage).

Anyone any suggestions on what is best to do? I'm in Northern Ireland by the way.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

Hi and welcome to LB!

I had a similar situation, HMRC wrote about an alleged overpayment, but were never able to show me a simple statement of account detailing WHY they said they overpaid me, or HOW they arrived to the figure quoted. I sent the query form back in Sept 2012, they replied restating the fact they overpaid me, but no calculations/figures/statements. I queried it again, they just passed it over to Advantis, who were chasing me till I submitted a complaint to HMRC (thanks to PlanB for supplying the info). I then sent a copy of my complaint to Advantis, who have put my account on hold till Xmas. :christmas3:

Basically my complaint was to do with the lack of statements/calculations. Are you satisfied with the amount they say they overpaid you? Have they provide you with a breakdown?

This is the thread: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...%28&highlight=

[enquirer]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

At the moment, they have passed it to a DCA. If they were truly confident, they would take you to court.

An aquaintance who works for HMRC advised me to always demand that they show their workings. He informed me that 9 times out of 10 they can't, and even when they can, it is often so complicated that doing so is not cost effective.

Make a formal complaint and copy your MP in on the correspondence. In order to to demonstrate their unreasonable behaviour, keep copies of all your letters and calls. Do not deal with them by email or telephone in the future - they will lie without hesitation.

[Fluftytufty]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

Hiya

Thank you you for the replies. Yup it's Advantis. I do think that we were overpaid but I had no idea it was as much. I had told them about our change in circumstances, they carried on paying so I assumed I must've been entitled to it.

I havent contacted the the debt collection agency because I don't want to be hounded.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

At the moment, they have passed it to a DCA. If they were truly confident, they would take you to court.

An aquaintance who works for HMRC advised me to always demand that they show their workings. He informed me that 9 times out of 10 they can't, and even when they can, it is often so complicated that doing so is not cost effective.

That's precisely my point, I'd pay them if they showed me how they arrived at that figure.

Make a formal complaint and copy your MP in on the correspondence. In order to to demonstrate their unreasonable behaviour, keep copies of all your letters and calls. Do not deal with them by email or telephone in the future - they will lie without hesitation.

I have made a formal complaint although I didn't think it was a matter for my MP but thanks for the idea. :yo:

Thank you you for the replies. Yup it's Advantis. I do think that we were overpaid but I had no idea it was as much. I had told them about our change in circumstances, they carried on paying so I assumed I must've been entitled to it.

I havent contacted the the debt collection agency because I don't want to be hounded.

Well, I was hounded by them until I contacted them with a copy of my letter of complaint to HMRC. They've now put my account on hold. :grin:

[Fluftytufty]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

The worry these people cause is terrible. I've a wee baby girl, recently moved house, have depression now this rolls up to my door.

Ive been reading through the threads and I'm so impressed by how lovely you all are. It's a much nicer forum than money savings expert, I asked a question on it and got slaughtered. I'll not be doing that again.

So my reading travels on here has had me wondering. I see that HMRC debts can't be statute barred, but mine has been sold onto these horrible Advantis people, so can that be statute barred? I'm worried that by ringing the HMRC at the beginning (when I got the debt collector letter I didn't realise that I'd be paying them, I thought I could still pay the HMRC) and offering to pay it has started the clock again.

[Fluftytufty]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

Any ideas what I could write in a formal complaint letter?

i cant see your thread FP, it says I don't have the right privileges.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

Any ideas what I could write in a formal complaint letter?

i cant see your thread FP, it says I don't have the right privileges.

Sorry, my thread is in the VIP area, but there isn't that much there, other than this link which is where I got the instructions from, about how to complain to HMRC. :yo:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/th...complain.htm#1

My letter isn't posted on the thread but I've dug it up, see below. You may have to edit/amend to suit your circumstances.

Complaints Manager
Tax Credit Office
Preston
PR1 4AT

Complaint - Tax Credits: [INSERT YOUR NI NUMBER HERE]

Dear Sirs

I am in receipt of a couple of letters from Advantis debt Collection Centre, who claim to be acting for yourselves to recover an alleged debt of £xxx.xx. The letters do not mention the nature of the debt, nor are there any statements of account attached. In view of the lack of information supplied, I can only assume they may relate to an alleged tax credits overpayment, which I have previously disputed with yourselves.

I only ever claimed working tax credits when I went back to work in [DATE] after being out of work for [xxx]. At the time of making the claim, I filled in the forms providing all the necessary details and was sent an award letter. My circumstances did not change during the period covered by my claim. At the end of the period, I received forms to renew my working tax credits claim. I did not submit them, because I didn’t think I would be entitled to further tax credits, thus I received no further payments other than the initial award.

In xxx 2013, I received a letter from yourselves asking for repayment of an alleged tax credits overpayment. In response to that letter, I submitted form tc846, which I believed to be the right way to ask for further information regarding the alleged overpayment. I never received any response from HMRC Tax Credits. Instead, the alleged debt was passed on straight to Advantis Debt Collection, without providing me with a reply to the forms.

I want to make it clear I am not trying to avoid paying, and would be happy set up a repayment plan for any amount I really owe, all I’ve been asking for is a breakdown or statement showing how the overpayment occurred and/or how the figure quoted was arrived at. I think I am entitled to that information before making any offers of repayment, and I don’t see why the account should have been passed to an external debt collection agency without providing me with a statement of account to explain how the alleged debt arose in the first place.

I am looking forward to your response so this matter can be finally settled.


Yours faithfully

Flaming Parrot

I sent a copy of that letter to Advantis and they put the account on hold. :grin:

[CleverClogs]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

So my reading travels on here has had me wondering. I see that HMRC debts can't be statute barred, but mine has been sold onto these horrible Advantis people, so can that be statute barred? I'm worried that by ringing the HMRC at the beginning (when I got the debt collector letter I didn't realise that I'd be paying them, I thought I could still pay the HMRC) and offering to pay it has started the clock again.

That would be impossible, as any acknowledgement of an alleged debt must be in writing (or email) for the limitation period to be restarted.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

The worry these people cause is terrible. I've a wee baby girl, recently moved house, have depression now this rolls up to my door.

Ive been reading through the threads and I'm so impressed by how lovely you all are. It's a much nicer forum than money savings expert, I asked a question on it and got slaughtered. I'll not be doing that again.

MSE has a totally different ethos, their approach to debt revolves around getting people to reduce their expenditure to be able to repay their debts, as opposed to challenging the debts themselves. I'm also a member there, have been one longer than here, yet I've only got a couple of hundred posts and haven't posted for a year!

So my reading travels on here has had me wondering. I see that HMRC debts can't be statute barred, but mine has been sold onto these horrible Advantis people, so can that be statute barred? I'm worried that by ringing the HMRC at the beginning (when I got the debt collector letter I didn't realise that I'd be paying them, I thought I could still pay the HMRC) and offering to pay it has started the clock again.

I don't think it has been *sold* to Advantis, at least not in my case, their letters clearly state they are acting for their client HMRC. That means it can easily be returned back to HMRC at any time.

[Fluftytufty]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

When I rang the HMRC, they told me that the debt was no longer their responsibility, it now belonged to the debt collection agency. I think Advantis put all that into their letters to guilt trip us into paying.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

When I rang the HMRC, they told me that the debt was no longer their responsibility, it now belonged to the debt collection agency. I think Advantis put all that into their letters to guilt trip us into paying.

HMRC said on one of their previous letters that the debt would be *passed* (not sold) to a DCA who wouldn't be able to discuss the outstanding amount. I wrote to them once more asking for a breakdown and all they did was pass it on to Advantis. It is for that reason that I complained to them, I said I'd pay as long as they tell me how they came to the conclusion that I owe them that money. Advantis put the account on hold so it's obviously worked. :bounce:

[Fluftytufty]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

How can they not discuss the outstanding amount? How ridiculous is that.

I cant decide what's best to do.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Oh dear, I need help

How can they not discuss the outstanding amount? How ridiculous is that.

The idea was that the DCA wouldn't be able to tell me how the amount was arrived at, which is fair enough since they wouldn't have all the information regarding my taxes and benefits that HMRC has.

I cant decide what's best to do.

You could send a complaint to HMRC like I did, if they haven't told you how they arrived at the figure they quoted, which seems much higher than what they're asking me for. You could also send them a SAR, which I'll probably do if they don't respond with a satisfactory breakdown and keep chasing me through DCAs.