Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Hi Amethyst et al!

Well, (sadly) we've had some progress! The plaintiff did not lodge a certificate of readiness within 6x months of my From 42, so the chief clerk has listed proceedings for next week!! Please see below for info of certificate of readiness, specifically (2) as this is what has happened in this case


Lodging of certificate of readiness


3. - (1) In any proceedings commenced by civil bill in which a notice of intention to defend has been served the plaintiff shall, subject to paragraph (1A) and after the conclusion of all interlocutory matters, request the chief clerk to enter the proceedings for hearing by delivery to the chief clerk at his office of a certificate of readiness in Form 43 and shall, at the same time, cause to be served on the other party or parties to the proceedings a copy of the certificate of readiness.


(1A) Subject to paragraph (1B), a certificate of readiness may not be delivered to the chief clerk until the expiry of 21 days following the date of service of the notice of intention to defend.


(1B) The plaintiff must notify the defendant in writing of his intention to lodge the certificate of readiness no later than 14 days prior to lodging the certificate. [added SR 2013/19 on 25 Feb 2013]


(2) In any proceedings in which a notice of intention to defend has been served the chief clerk shall, if no certificate of readiness has been delivered to him within a period of 6 months immediately following the date of service of the notice of intention to defend, list the proceedings before the judge or district judge (as the case may be) and notify the parties accordingly and the judge or district judge (as the case may be) may issue such directions concerning the future conduct of any such proceedings as he considers appropriate including, in particular, an order that the proceedings be stayed or dismissed.


So now we have a court date next week. The court letter stated;
Please note the plaintiff has failed to lodge a cert of readiness within 6 months of you lodging and notice of intention to defend
this case had therefore been listed for review before the district judge on xxth Nov 2016 unless the plaintiff lodges a cert of readiness prior to this date.
you are not required to attend unless you wish to make representation to the court.
If the cert of readiness is filed this date will be withdrawn.

I naively thought that because there was no cert of readiness issued, that the plaintiff would not proceed. But....they've now sent me 2x letters;

1st - requesting; 1. Notice Requiring Discovery & 2. Notice for further and better particulars of defense

FORM 68A
NOTICE REQUIRING DISCOVERY
ORDER 15, RULE 1 (2)
IN THE COUNTY COURT FOR THE DIVISION OF
BY THE DISTRICT JUDGE
TAKE NOTICE that you are hereby required to make Discovery in Form 68 of any documents which are, or have been, in your possession, custody or power relating to any matter in question in these proceedings.
AND FURTHER take note that if you fail to comply with this requirement within fourteen days an application may be made to the Chief Clerk for an Order directing you to make Discovery (which may be required to be verified by Affidavit) and such application may be made ex parte without further notice to you.


IN THE COUNTY COURT FOR THE DIVISION OF
BY THE COUNTY COURT JUDGE
NOTICE FOR FURTHER AND BETTER PARTICULARS
TAKE NOTICE that the Defendant requires you to furnish to the Plaintiff's solicitors, Further and Better Particulars in writing within fourteen days from the date hereof of your Defense:- AND FURTHER TAKE NOTICE that if you fail to furnish the said Particulars, an Application will be made to the Court for an Order compelling you to do so and use will be made of this Notice for the purpose of fixing you with the costs of and incidental to such Application

the 2nd letter..
We refer to the above and the Notices served on you. You will note that this matter has been listed for Review before the Judge on XX November 2016. Further to our notices, it would appear plain that you have had the use and enjoyment of this credit card from on or about 7th March 2002 to on or about 22nd February 2010. This is some considerable time and we would propose cross examining you on, more particularly inter alia your long standing use of this credit facility and the final balance subsequently defaulted on as evidenced in our supporting documentation.
That said and with expediency in mind, our client might be minded to resolve this matter without requirement for contest and so if you have any proposals with a view to an amicable resolve, without having to put the matter before a Court, we would respectfully suggest now is the time to do so.


So i'm guessing we now have to file my defense?!

Any help would be most welcome!!

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

I've checked my old CC statements, and it looks like my last payment was made 11/09/09

I've a letter dated 5/2/10, saying the account is due to default at the end of the month

i then have a letter dated 8/3/10 which looks like it could be the default itself, although its not entirely clear

the default date on my credit file (now gone) and on the civil bill was 27/2/10.

Hope that helps!

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

I've found this, although its pretty tough to understand!

https://www.courtsni.gov.uk/en-GB/Pu...RsCC/RsCC.html

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Template Form 68

FORM 68
List of documents
ORDER 15, RULE 1(2A)
[Title as in Form 1]
The following is a list of the documents relating to the matters in question in these proceedings which are or have been in the possession, custody or power of the above-named plaintiff [or defendant] AB [and which is served in compliance with the order herein dated the ……… day of ……… ………20 … …
1 . The plaintiff [or defendant] has in his possession, custody or power the documents relating to the matters in question in these proceedings enumerated in Schedule 1.
2. The plaintiff [or defendant] objects to produce the documents enumerated in Part II of Schedule 1 on the ground that … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … [stating the ground of objection].
3. The plaintiff [or defendant] has had, but has not now, in his possession, custody or power the documents relating to the matters in question in these proceedings enumerated in Schedule 2.
4. Of the documents in Schedule 2, those numbered ……… …… in that Schedule were last in the plaintiff's [or defendants] possession, custody or power on … … … … … … … … [stating when] and the remainder on … … … … … …[stating when].
… … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … [Here state what has become of the documents and in whose possession they now are].
5. Neither the plaintiff [or defendant], nor his solicitor nor any other person on his behalf, has now, or ever had, in his possession, custody or power any document of any description whatever relating to any matter in question in these proceedings, other than the documents enumerated in Schedules 1 and 2.
Schedule 1
PART 1
… … … … … … … … … … … … … …
… … … … … … … … … … … … … … … …
[Here enumerate in a convenient order the documents (or bundles of documents, if of the same nature, such as invoices) in the possession, custody or power of the party in question which he does not object to produce, with a short description of each document or bundle sufficient to identify it.]
PART II
… … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … …
… … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … …
[Here enumerate as aforesaid the documents in the possession, custody or power of the party in question which he objects to produce.]
Schedule 2
… … … … … … … … … … … …
… … … … … … … … … … … … … …
[Here enumerate as aforesaid the documents which have been, but at the date of service of the list am not, in the possession, custody or power of the party in question.]
Dated the ……… day of ……… 20 … …
Notice to inspect
Take notice that the documents in the above list, other than those listed in Part II of Schedule 1 [and Schedule 2], may be inspected at … … … … … … … … [the office of the solicitor of the above-named [plaintiff] [defendant] (insert address) or as may be] on the … …day of … … … …20 … …, between the hours of … …and … …when copies may be taken.
The defendant [or plaintiff] CD and his solicitor.
Served the … …day of … …20 … … by of solicitor for the [plaintiff] [defendant].

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Notice for further particulars [subst. SR 2013/19 on 25 Feb 2013]

3.—(1) In any case to which Rule 2(4) does not apply, the defendant may require the plaintiff, by notice in writing served within 14 days after service of the notice of intention to defend, to furnish further particulars of claim within 14 days of service of the notice for particulars.
(2) In any case to which Rule 2(4) does not apply, the plaintiff may require the defendant by notice in writing served within 14 days after service of the particulars of claim or where no notice for further particulars of claim has been served, within 14 days of service of the notice of intention to defend, to furnish particulars of any defence, set off or counterclaim within 14 days of service of the notice for particulars.
(3) Where under paragraphs (1) and (2) particulars have been duly required and—
(a) have not been furnished within the time specified in the notice; or
(b) if furnished, are in the opinion of the judge or district judge insufficient;
the judge or district judge may make such order as he thinks just including, in particular, an order that the proceedings be dismissed or, as the case may be, an order that the notice of intention to defend be struck out and judgment be entered accordingly.
(4) Any costs occasioned by service of a notice under paragraph (1) or (2) shall be at the discretion of the judge or district judge as the case may be.
(5) Where a defendant has served a third party notice this Rule shall, with any necessary modifications, apply as if the third party were a defendant and a plaintiff.
(6) In this Rule the words “plaintiff” and “defendant” respectively shall include a plaintiff and defendant to a counterclaim.


HELP!

[Kati]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

tagging [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] xx

[nemesis45]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

tagging @nemesis45 xx

Not read through the thread, but the answer to the question in the title is No.

Formal ( as in A CCA Request + £1 fee) request does not acknowledge and liability.

What exactly are you trying to prove?

I see [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] is working with you on this hopefully she'll be along to assist.

nem

[Amethyst]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

The date of the claim vs the date of default/ last payment seem to remove the statute barred argument as there isn't a clear six years between. You would need to supply the documents you have and your defence now however I believe you had the agreement ? I'll read back once school run is dealt with to check exactly where you stand though xxx

[Amethyst]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Ahhh okay so they aren't from the court. I'll have to look at the NI CPR stuff see what your obligations are. They seem to be equivalent to CPR 31.14 and CPR 18 requests in England. Very late in the day if they haven't previously asked for anything and have failed to file their notice of proceeding.

I am a little concerned that you don't actually have a defence as things stand - possibly a weak one on statute barring, and I think it is likely that the default date would be taken as cause of action.

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

But first you need to ensure you have a defence. Unfortunately reading back the CCA they have sent looks valid - minor illegibility but it can be read and the original would have been legible - it is a true copy ( has your signature) plus it is reconstituted to be legible and they have supplied all the terms from the relevant inception date and as varied.

The CCA does not have my signature, not is it dated, just a printed name and address. Furthermore the middle name is not correct (it says Step, where as my middle name is Stephen. Does any of that help any?

The does the clock start running, from the last payment? or first missed payment? or something else?

[Amethyst]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

The CCA does not have my signature, not is it dated, just a printed name and address. Furthermore the middle name is not correct (it says Step, where as my middle name is Stephen. Does any of that help any?

The does the clock start running, from the last payment? or first missed payment? or something else?

I thought you'd blanked out the signature on here, but could just have been a bad copy - so this came through entirely blank ? Is it your address details under the black box ? and are they printed or handwritten?




Your details are on the later terms copy.

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

under the black box, that section has my printed name and address (but the middle name is incorrect).

The signature and date section is bottom right of the same page, and that is also blank

Amethyst, I sincerely thank you for all your assistance here

[Joanna C]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

I would suggest that you contact the court and find out whether the claimant has field its certificate of readiness. The hearing next week is in essence a case management hearing, In the UK courts the court allows cases to be stayed indefinitely if the claimant does not show readiness to proceed but in Northern Ireland they can only do this for a period of six months which has now expired.

If the claimant doesn't file a certificate of readiness it is likely their claim will be dismissed unless they can show good cause.

I would suggest that the Form 68A has been served on you by the Claimant because they have little to no documentation and they are hoping that you have received a default notice served under s.87(1) of the Act from the original creditor. Without evidence of service of a default notice their claim is fatally flawed. Similarly with other statutory obligations which in my experience this claimant won’t have complied with.

From what I have seen form the redacted CCA documentation posted on your thread the claimant is currently in breach of s.78 CCA.

I would suggest from what I have seen from your postings on the thread and the redacted documentation that you issue the claimants with a Form 68A.

With regard to their letter to you on post 46 I would suggest writing back and telling them that if the matter proceeds to hearing you will be expecting them to provide evidence of the reconstitution of the purported credit agreement, evidence that your debt was actually assigned by MBNA and in that regard you expect them to produce the Deed of Assignment and any notice of assignment they seek to rely on. They will also need to provide evidence of the Default notice they issued as well as compliance with the other statutory obligations under the CCA.

The further and better particulars I think under Northern Ireland Law means that you must now file your defence within 14 days of service or they will make an application to the court to enter judgment against you. I would suggest that you could tell them in the same letter that you will provide the further and better particulars once they have provided you with their response to the Part 68A form as you need that information to draft your defence. I would also copy any correspondence you send to the claimant to the court.

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

I would suggest from what I have seen from your postings on the thread and the redacted documentation that you issue the claimants with a Form 68A.

With regard to their letter to you on post 46 I would suggest writing back and telling them that if the matter proceeds to hearing you will be expecting them to provide evidence of the reconstitution of the purported credit agreement, evidence that your debt was actually assigned by MBNA and in that regard you expect them to produce the Deed of Assignment and any notice of assignment they seek to rely on. They will also need to provide evidence of the Default notice they issued as well as compliance with the other statutory obligations under the CCA.

The further and better particulars I think under Northern Ireland Law means that you must now file your defence within 14 days of service or they will make an application to the court to enter judgment against you. I would suggest that you could tell them in the same letter that you will provide the further and better particulars once they have provided you with their response to the Part 68A form as you need that information to draft your defence. I would also copy any correspondence you send to the claimant to the court.

Thanks Joanna, that's a great help and relief.

I cant find a template Form 68A anywhere, can you point me in the right direction?

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

I would suggest that you contact the court and find out whether the claimant has field its Certificate of Readiness. The hearing next week is in essence a case management hearing, In the UK courts the court allows cases to be stayed indefinitely if the claimant does not show readiness to proceed but in Northern Ireland they can only do this for a period of six months which has now expired.
If the claimant doesn't file a certificate of readiness it is likely their claim will be dismissed unless they can show good cause.

I've just contacted the court, and no CoR has been received. The case is still scheduled for review next week, and this will go ahead even if a CoR is not received from the Plaintiff