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Hello, I am in need of advice regarding a Loan I took out back in 2000. I made the monthly repayments until I struggled through a breakup with my partner/father of my children (domestic violence). Natwest issued a Default Notice and I tried desperately to pay the instalments but unfortunately just couldn't do it I was receiving Income Support for my two boys but struggled and therefore had to ask CCCs for help, contacted all my creditors and began token payments of £1.00,. however Natwest refused and instructed APEX Credit Management to act on their behalf. I paid £5.00 per month to repay the outstanding debt. Jumping forward, I wanted to check my Credit Score to see if they had removed my ex partners name, and advised Experian that his name should be removed. It was then that I noticed that the Debt to Natwest was not listed on my File history, so I checked with call credit - Not on there, Equifax - Not on there. Apex were continuously reviewing my financial situation and asking if I could pay more as it is going to take forever to clear my debt. I asked them to provide me with a balance, nothing came through. I decided that I would stop making the payment until I had proof of the debt still outstanding as this is now 12years later. Back in June 2013, I received a letter from Natwest advising me that Apex have been trying to contact me, but now they are instructing Robinsons Way to act on there behalf. I have today looked at my credit file via NODDLE and Robinson Way Limited have listed a Debt Collection on my search List back in June 2013.... I am desperate to find a solution to this problem, RW have even telephoned my mother, and text her number to advise me that I need to contact them urgently. I have not spoken to them or written. Please could somebody help and point me in the right direction, I am very worried and my health is taking a battering over the stress of it.
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
First of all, don't stress! :nono: There's a solution for everything.
It's not worth putting your health at risk for the sake of a DCA who has probably paid 10% of the alleged outstanding balance. Keep everything in writing, do not call them and if they call you, refuse to go through security and hang up.
When was the last time a payment was made?
As this is an account from 2000, I would be sending a CCA request to Robinson Way. Below is the CCA request letter, which should be sent recorded delivery with a £1 PO and signed using a computer font rather than your real signature.
Dear Sirs,
Account or Reference No.:
I hereby formally request a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement, pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit (12 + 2 days).
If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties. Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).
In line with recent OFT Guidance (issued Oct 2010) surrounding Unenforceability, I presume you're aware that the OFT has stipulated that 'sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements'. This simply means that under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:
- a copy of their agreement
- copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
- a statement of account
If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:
- make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
- get a court judgment against the debtor
So, in line with the OFT Guidance, and the Consumer Credit Act, please find attached my £1 payment, which is the statutory fee - note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose. If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee and then remove the incorrect entry from your systems.
Yours faithfully, -
Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
With regards to the harrassment you are experiencing, I would suggest looking at this: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...rom+harassmentOriginally posted by mbtstars View PostComment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
If you can give us a timeline of what has happened and when it happened then it will help us greatly to advise you correctlyHello, I am in need of advice regarding a Loan I took out back in 2000. I made the monthly repayments until I struggled through a breakup with my partner/father of my children (domestic violence). Natwest issued a Default Notice When was this roughly and I tried desperately to pay the instalments but unfortunately just couldn't do it I was receiving Income Support for my two boys but struggled and therefore had to ask CCCs for help, Again when was this roughly contacted all my creditors and began token payments of £1.00,. however Natwest refused and instructed APEX Credit Management to act on their behalf. I paid £5.00 per month to repay the outstanding debt.When did you make last payment and WHY did you stop paying?? Jumping forward, I wanted to check my Credit Score to see if they had removed my ex partners name, and advised Experian that his name should be removed. It was then that I noticed that the Debt to Natwest was not listed on my File history, so I checked with call credit - Not on there, Equifax - Not on there. This could be because if default was registered more than 6 yrs ago, it will have dropped off your Credit history now, as defaults disappear (are supposed to) after 6 yrs of when they were registered, even if there is still outstanding debt on the account Apex were continuously reviewing my financial situation and asking if I could pay more as it is going to take forever to clear my debt. I asked them to provide me with a balance, When was this and what exactly did you send them, do you still have a copy of the letter if you sent a letter that is nothing came through. I decided that I would stop making the payment until I had proof of the debt still outstanding as this is now 12years later. Back in June 2013, I received a letter from Natwest advising me that Apex have been trying to contact me, but now they are instructing Robinsons Way to act on there behalf. I have today looked at my credit file via NODDLE and Robinson Way Limited have listed a Debt Collection on my search List back in June 2013.... I am desperate to find a solution to this problem, RW have even telephoned my mother, and text her number to advise me that I need to contact them urgently. I have not spoken to them or written. Please could somebody help and point me in the right direction, I am very worried and my health is taking a battering over the stress of it.
Parrot personally I would not bother with this at the mo because Rob Way are only ACTING on behalf of Natwest so they will NOT have a copy of the CCA even IF one existsI would be sending a CCA request to Robinson Way.
And I seriously doubt you could go down the CCA isn't enforceable (which I am assuming is the angle you are about to look at, apologies if I am wrong) because mbtstars has been paying monthly to the debt and has tried to negotiate a lower monthly payment so therefore a court could say the debt IS and HAS been admitted, but it will depend on when the last payment has been made to the account (I'm hoping its more than 6 yrs ago) and when the negotiations were made
mbtstars;
When was the last time you received a statement from Natwest to know how much is still outstanding on the debt
I really think we need a timeline here so we can advise your best next move due to the time period you have already mentioned because if it's getting close to the 6yr period then this could be their last ditch attempt to get money out of you
From what you said here
I am wondering if the debt is now statute barredI asked them to provide me with a balance, nothing came through. I decided that I would stop making the payment until I had proof of the debt still outstanding as this is now 12years later. Back in June 2013, I received a letter from Natwest advising me that Apex have been trying to contact me,Comment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
They wouldn't have it but they would have to obtain it from the OC or else return the account to the OC. This strategy has been tried and tested and known to work for a number of people, including myself. :grin:Originally posted by Gorang View Post
For the sake of £1 + postage, I can't see any downsides to this approach. :noidea:
I think we are confusing unenforceability with Statute Barred under the Limitations Act. If the OP has been paying and/or negotiating, the debt wouldn't be SBd, but that doesn't mean it's enforceable. It's not clear when the last payment was made.Originally posted by Gorang View Post
The purpose of the CCA request is to establish whether the OC holds a properly executed agreement. If not, the debt will be unenforceable even if paid within the last 6 years. :thumb:
Obviously if the last payment or written acknowledgment was over 6 years ago, then it's SBd but this is not clear at this stage.Comment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
Originally posted by FlamingParrot View Post
If its NOT statute barred then yes I would advise CCA request
Long and short we need more info from mbtstarsComment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
The CCA request wouldn't reset the clock if it's already SBd, even a payment wouldn't 'unbar' it if there's been a clear 6 year period without payments. From the text below, I got the impression this wouldn't be SBd as the OP was making payments, hence the suggestion of a CCA request as opposed to SBd letter.Originally posted by Gorang View Post
One thing I find rather strange is that the debt hasn't been sold after 12 years, Natwest still seem to own it! :confused2:
Originally posted by mbtstars View PostComment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
The CCA request wouldn't reset the clock if it's already SBd, even a payment wouldn't 'unbar' it if there's been a clear 6 year period without payments. 100% agree From the text below, I got the impression this wouldn't be SBd as the OP was making payments, hence the suggestion of a CCA request as opposed to SBd letter. Ahhhh okI was thinking this was 12yrs ago and Natwest have NOW tried to reclaim, which is the part I don't get, Why 12yrs later???I asked them to provide me with a balance, nothing came through. I decided that I would stop making the payment until I had proof of the debt still outstanding as this is now 12years later. Back in June 2013, I received a letter from Natwest advising me that Apex have been trying to contact me, but now they are instructing Robinsons Way to act on there behalf.
Yeah me too, as that is VERY strange, and would surprise me if they have just kept the account with only getting £5 a month, which is what made me think it could be statue barred and they themselves have forgotten/misplaced the account and then stumbled onto the account again, so in one last ditch attempt to recuperate some money, throw it at the Rob Way for very little cost (if any cost coz I think Rob way will only get paid IF they can get money for account holder, but I could be wrong with that), to see what comes backOne thing I find rather strange is that the debt hasn't been sold after 12 years, Natwest still seem to own it!
LOL either way we are both just guessing here
mbtstars where are you, we need info lolComment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
Hello all,
im so sorry that I haven't been on here, I am embarrassed to admit that my brain just hasn't been in gear to deal with this among other duties as a single mum. I now feel more able and confident to get a resolve to this ongoing nightmare.
I also want to thank you all very very much for your comments, and apologise for my lack of communication, I am grateful that you took the time to help out.
There has been movement with debt company, Natwest have written to me advising that Westcot are now dealing with the debt. They enclosed a statement of my payments of £5.00 the last payment being November 29 Nov 2012. The reason I held back payment was due to Apex writing to me stating I had defaulted on payment arrangement, I hadn't. Now, the debt was two outstanding amounts 1- personal loan 19 may 2000
2- overdraft 2001
I couldn't understand why Apex were sending me letters every month showing the balance decreasing by £5 yet claiming I was defaulting, that's when I checked with Equifax & Experian and nothing was showing for Natwest.
The letter I have just received from Westcot, reads
REMINDER NOTICE
OUR LATEST ENQUIRIES HAVE NOW CONFIRMED THAT YOU ARE STILL RESIDENT AT THIS ADDRESS BUT WE HAVE MOT RECEIVED A REPLY TO OUR CORRESPONDENCE. UNLESS YOU CONTACT US TO AGREE REPAYMENT OF £1799.40 WITHIN THE NEXT TEN DAYS FURTHER DEBT RECOVERY ACTIVITY WILL BE TAKEN TO RECOVER THE FULL OUTSTANDING BALANCE.
PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER AS THIS COULD RESULT I. FURTHER ACTION TO THE DEBT
YOURS SINCERELY
WESTCOT CREDIT SERVICES LTD
So sorry to ramble on, should I phone Westcot as I am desperately worried that someone is going to appear at my door!Comment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
DO NOT PHONE THEM! Everything in writing, you have FP helping she is very good .
Wescott have not come up with anything after nealy three years with one of mine!Never give up, Never surrender.Comment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
I'm now on the Robin Bast**rd Way's hit list.
I wondered if anyone could advise on my situation...
I had an overdraft facility many moons ago with Abbey National. I left the country in Nov/Dec 2008 thinking I would not be returning so never actually cleared the overdraft, but things did not work out and i returned to London in 2010.
Since then i had not had any contact with regards to any debt or money owed and presumed it would have been written off in due course. What I think triggered them to find me is that I stupidly registered a company in my name in Dec 2013 with my present address and received letters starting Jan 2014 chasing me for the sum of £2000+ odd pounds.
I have not had any communication from Abbey or any other debt collection agency in this period. Is this debt statue barred?
If not can I use some delay tactics to dispute and keep them at bay until it is statue barred.
I have a knot in my stomach as I got another letter today saying they will visit me, which I know they cannot do without an appointment.
Any advise will be greatly appreciated.Comment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
Your profile says you are in England, where SBd is 6 years rather than 5. Were you still using the current account in 2008? With overdrafts, the SB clock starts ticking from the time the bank recalls the O/D, not when you last paid into your current account. Depending on your dates, you'd either send them the SB letter or a prove it letter. A CCA request wouldn't apply to an O/D.Originally posted by modder View Post
You can send them this letter:Originally posted by modder View Post
Dear Sirs
Account No: XXXXXXXX
Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me over the past few weeks and these have been duly logged by time and date. Should it be your intention to arrange a doorstep visit, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.
There is an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.
Yours faithfully,Comment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
HiOriginally posted by FlamingParrot View Post
Thank you for your response. Yes I am in England. Since 2008 I never touched that account and they never had a correct address to contact me with. So I really would not know when they would have tried to recall the OD.
What do you think is the best approach to string them on for a long time. Do I acknowledge that they have sent me letters and ask them to prove it. Should I change the address on companies house where I registered myself as a director? Just unsure.Comment
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
As there has been no contact from anyone for years, you can start by sending them the prove it letter and see what they say. :tinysmile_twink_t2:Originally posted by modder View Post
Dear Sirs
Account No/Reference No: XXXXXXXX
You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself. I have no knowledge of any such debt. I am familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.
I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable and in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive and unfair methods. Furthermore ignoring and disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical & psychological harassment.
I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question and await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.
Yours faithfully,Not much point in doing that at this stage, plus it's always best if they do know where to contact you. There are lots of examples of people who have CCJs they didn't know about because creditors issued court papers to an old address.Originally posted by modder View Post
Sadly once you become a company director, all your private details are in the public domain.
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Re: Robinson Way Debt Collectors
I will get the prove it letter out to them tomorrow. Thanks for your advise. I fear I will have to bite the bullet but I certainly want to make them work for.
I wish to avoid a ccj if one has not been issued already by the said bank. I would like to apply for a mortgage at some point.
I will reply here with their response for reference.Comment
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