Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

[Dobbs2010]

Hi,

I had a credit card from Coop that was deemed unenforceable by a solicitor due to various errors in the agreement, it has an outstanding balance of £5800. It has been 3 years this month since I was instructed by the solicitor to cease payments to the Coop. Since then the debt has been passed to various DCA's and is now with Lowell (The 4th DCA I think). I started receiving letters from them in January 2013, I have replied in writing numerous times, supplying them with copies of the solicitors letters that were sent to the Coop highlighting the errors in the agreement and why it is unenforceable. Their stock answer has been that the Coop has no record of this dispute and as such the debt still stands.

After reading information from this forum I sent them the following letter.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

Dear Sir/Madam

Reference No: xxxxxxxxx Original Account No: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I refer to your contact regarding the above account which you claim I owe. I am informing you that I do not recognise the debt and therefore it is DISPUTED.

Under the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance (updated October 2011) it states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

I would also remind you that the OFT states under their Guidance that it is ‘unfair’ to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable and that it is deceptive and unfair in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

Furthermore, if you ignore and/or disregard claims that debts have been settled or are ‘disputed’ and continue to make unjustified demands for payment then this can amount to physical or psychological harassment, as detailed in the OFT Guidance.

I am also familiar with Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act.

As I dispute this debt you refer to then I trust you will make no further contact unless you can satisfy me that this debt exists and that I am liable.

If you subsequently cannot prove I owe this debt and if you continue to act in this irresponsible and unprofessional way then I will have no other alternative than to report you to Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading. I will also lodge a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service and your trade association, if appropriate, the Credit Services Association.

If I receive any communication from another debt collection agency then it will be evident that you have sold this debt on with the knowledge that it is disputed. Should this occur then I will report you to the government bodies and trade association detailed above.

I now await written confirmation that this matter is now closed, you are not to contact me by telephone, instead by letter only.

I look forward to your reply by return.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

I have received an email from them this morning stating.

Thank you for your letter of 13.09.2013.

We note your comments but refer to previous correspondence in the matter.

The Co-operative Bank have asked that you or your solicitor contact their customer care department:

Customer Care,
The Co-operative Bank Plc,
4th Floor,
Miller Street,
Manchester,
M60 0AL
Tel: 0844 875 8755 (cards)

Please quote the original reference xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx when contacting the Co-op.

Unless our client advises us to amend the balance or cease collection you will remain liable for the balance.

We trust this clarifies the matter and ask that you provide an update of your contact with our client.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could offer some advice on what to do next, as they seem to keep coming back with the same answer no matter what I do.

Thank you.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

Has the DCA been sending you regular annual statements, as is required under the post contractual requirements regs?

If, the agreement was irredeemably unenforceable 3 years ago then the same would apply now. The reputation of the Lowell Group precedes them thus are notorious for chasing dead donkey debt!

I would suggest that you tell them politely to BOG OFF; that your position remains the same and that you will not enter into any further correspondence with them!!!

If, you must write again, maybe a further CCA request would be of benefit?

They wont stop sending their begging letters even after debts are well statute barred; that is their strategy...

[Dobbs2010]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

Thanks for the swift reply.

I haven't received any statements from them.

At this stage telling them to BOG OFF is certainly on the cards as I'm sick of getting the same reply from them. Am I correct in saying, as they claim the debt was sold onto them, it is there responsibility to communicate with the Coop and not mine. I have give them all the information they need, yet they seem to be in denial that this debt is in dispute.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

Thanks for the swift reply.

I haven't received any statements from them.

At this stage telling them to BOG OFF is certainly on the cards as I'm sick of getting the same reply from them. Am I correct in saying, as they claim the debt was sold onto them, it is there responsibility to communicate with the Coop and not mine. I have give them all the information they need, yet they seem to be in denial that this debt is in dispute.

Probably not the best of ideas where Lowell are concerned, they are fond of issuing Statutory Demands to bypass the usual county court route. :scared: Cel, one of the site owners, :yo: has an excellent track record of setting them aside, but it always helps if the debtor keeps a healthy paper trail.

If Lowell keep contacting you and your CCA request was a long time ago, it may be worth sending a fresh CCA request to them. As you say, it would be up to them to request the documents from the Co-op. Obviously if you don't hear from them, then it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

[Dobbs2010]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

Thanks for your input, haven't been back on since my last post. Will the CCA request achieve anything? The reason the debt is deemed unenforceable is due to errors in the agreement, unless I'm confused about what a CCA request is. Thanks again for your help.

[mystery1]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

Your "lawyer" is an idiot or you have misunderstood.

Only a judge can rule an agreement unenforceable. They can of course give their opinion which may or may not be correct.

Your lawyer works for you. They should not instruct you to do anything. You instruct them that's why they get paid.

A s78 request is a waste of time if you are convinced the original agreement is unenforceable and can never become enforceable. I would send one.

M1

[mystery1]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

BTW if those templates make it to court then they are going to seriously prejudice a judge. I deny this, i deny that yet in the op you know what it is and what it's for.

M1

[Dobbs2010]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

BTW if those templates make it to court then they are going to seriously prejudice a judge. I deny this, i deny that yet in the op you know what it is and what it's for.

M1

This template for a 'prove it letter' was obtained from another thread in these forums relating to a dispute almost identical to mine. At no point did I use the word deny in the letter.

You stated in your previous post "A s78 request is a waste of time if you are convinced the original agreement is unenforceable and can never become enforceable", all the paperwork I have from the solicitor states that the agreement in their eyes is irredeemably unenforceable. So is it a waste of time? You said you would send one, so should I send one anyway? Thanks.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

This template for a 'prove it letter' was obtained from another thread in these forums relating to a dispute almost identical to mine. At no point did I use the word deny in the letter.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. In my opinion, the 'prove it' letter should be sent in cases where a DCA contacts you and you don't know what the debt is for, I think I may have said this before. This is because not all debts fall under the CCA, things such as utilities and mobile contracts do not. When the debt is clearly for something that falls under the CCA, such as a loan or credit card, it's always best to send a CCA request.

You stated in your previous post "A s78 request is a waste of time if you are convinced the original agreement is unenforceable and can never become enforceable", all the paperwork I have from the solicitor states that the agreement in their eyes is irredeemably unenforceable. So is it a waste of time? You said you would send one, so should I send one anyway? Thanks.

It can't take too long to copy and paste the CCA request text onto a Word document, type your details and print the letter. For the sake of 5 minutes and £1.50 (the fee + 50p for the PO), I wouldn't hesitate to send it.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

So, which Coop credit card was it?
http://www.co-operativebankinggroup....Page%2FtplCorp

If, Lowell are involved then I wouldn't be surprised if the agreement could be unenforceable!?
Difficult to say without having sight of same.

Agree, send the S78 CCA request and if you wish a £1 postage stamp would suffice. Caution, though; keep copies and send via Recorded Delivery!

[mystery1]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

This template for a 'prove it letter' was obtained from another thread in these forums relating to a dispute almost identical to mine. At no point did I use the word deny in the letter.

You stated in your previous post "A s78 request is a waste of time if you are convinced the original agreement is unenforceable and can never become enforceable", all the paperwork I have from the solicitor states that the agreement in their eyes is irredeemably unenforceable. So is it a waste of time? You said you would send one, so should I send one anyway? Thanks.

"Reference No: xxxxxxxxx Original Account No: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"

"I am informing you that I do not recognise the debt and therefore it is DISPUTED."

A Judge, who is likely against you anyway, will take it that you are trying to avoid the debt.



What you have to understand is that much advice on fora is about getting to statute barred. Some of the tactics used are designed for this. That doesn't make them good for defending a claim. A claim can be won if the Judges dislikes you but it is harder.

There is not one size fits all. Templates are ok because nobody has the time, and quite probably the knowledge, or both but they are far from ideal.

As for s78, it's pointless to have an agreement ruled unenforceable for 2 reasons particularly when one reason can be fixed. The reason i would send a s78 request is, until a judge says it's irredeemably unenforceable, it's not. It might look like it but it's not, it's only an opinion no matter how experienced the person who gave the opinion.

M1

[Angry Cat]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

It would be interesting to know which Barrister it was whose opinion concluded that the agreement in question was/is irredeemably unenforceable!?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

What you have to understand is that much advice on fora is about getting to statute barred. Some of the tactics used are designed for this. That doesn't make them good for defending a claim. A claim can be won if the Judges dislikes you but it is harder.

Indeed, the UE process is designed to keep you out of court for six years, and it works in a large number of cases, but nothing is guaranteed to work 100%.

As for s78, it's pointless to have an agreement ruled unenforceable for 2 reasons particularly when one reason can be fixed. The reason i would send a s78 request is, until a judge says it's irredeemably unenforceable, it's not. It might look like it but it's not, it's only an opinion no matter how experienced the person who gave the opinion.

M1

Indeed only a judge can rule that way, however, the purpose of the s.78 request would be:

1. To make an assessment of enforceability or otherwise (as you say, it's an opinion, but gives you a rough idea based on what they send).
2. To establish whether there's an agreement in the first place. In a number of cases, there isn't one and they can't enforce.
3. To cover yourself. If you don't send a CCA request, you have no argument to dispute the account in the first place. If you get something back, it gives you something to argue about. If you get nothing back, then you simply have to say they are in default of your s.78 request. It has, so far, worked for me for nearly 4 years :thumb:

[Dobbs2010]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

Thanks for all your advice it is greatly appreciated. I will get a CCA request sorted ready to send to Lowell. Just for clarity this request was made directly to the Coop by the solicitors in 2009/10, can't remember exactly when without going through a mound of paperwork. Does it matter that it's already been done, or is the need for it to be done again because they've sold the debt to Lowell. Thanks again.

[mystery1]

Re: Lowell/Coop credit card dispute advice needed please.

1. To cover yourself. If you don't send a CCA request, you have no argument to dispute the account in the first place. If you get something back, it gives you something to argue about. If you get nothing back, then you simply have to say they are in default of your s.78 request. It has, so far, worked for me for nearly 4 years :thumb:

Depends on your record keeping and memory

M1