Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

[GulDukat]

Hi,

To cut an extremely long story short, after starting civil legal action against a surveyor for breach of contract, the courts have ordered them to pay me. So far so good - you might think.

However, there is less than a week until the payment deadline expires - and there is no sign of payment. The company is still trading and still active - ignoring the order completely.

The options appear to be either bailiffs via the High Court (as the claim is over £5000) or to issue a winding up petition. I have been advised that the latter will be most likely to achieve the desired outcome by my legal advisor. Is this true?

My objective is to get the money owed to me, not necessarily to have their business closed down.

Any thoughts would be really appreciated.

[charitynjw]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

Hi GulDukat,

If it were me, I would escalate this up, obtain a writ of fi-fa, cry Havoc! & let slip the dogs of......High Court Enforcement Officers!

http://www.hceoa.org.uk/

[bluebottle]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

If a county court judgement is for a sum of £5000 or over, I believe it has to be passed up to the High Court for enforcement. Under that sum and over £600, it is an option. One of our members is an expert in High Court enforcement matters and should be able to advise which would be the best High Court Enforcement firm to employ.

[GulDukat]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

Hi GulDukat,

If it were me, I would escalate this up, obtain a writ of fi-fa, cry Havoc! & let slip the dogs of......High Court Enforcement Officers!

http://www.hceoa.org.uk/

Thanks! I have sent an enquiry email to them, so we'll see what they say.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

My advisc would in contrast to previous posters be the winding up route, so I agree with your legal advisers. This concentrates their minds if they want to continue trading, they have 21 days to respond. They will then take this seriously and either pay, negotiate or appeal the court orders.

[GulDukat]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

If a county court judgement is for a sum of £5000 or over, I believe it has to be passed up to the High Court for enforcement. Under that sum and over £600, it is an option. One of our members is an expert in High Court enforcement matters and should be able to advise which would be the best High Court Enforcement firm to employ.

One thing I'm worried about in terms of bailiffs is that I understand they can only take things that belong to the company. If the company assets are just bits of office furniture, what can the bailiffs actually do? I'm a bit new to this, but I associate bailiffs with taking equipment of value.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

My advice would in contrast to previous posters be the winding up route, so I agree with your legal advisers. This concentrates their minds if they want to continue trading, they have 21 days to respond. They will then take this seriously and either pay, negotiate or appeal the court orders.

Or, in those three weeks, they could strip the company of its assets, set up another company and leave the original company to be wound up with bugger all to pay to the judgement creditor.

[Nibbler]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

Would cost over £1385 plus legal costs I think to try winding up, and still no guarantee you would get those costs back, let alone any of the actual debt.

Unless you are sure that they would not want that and/or have means/assets to easily pay the debt and substantial insolvency costs if it actually went that far, then it's a dangerous game to play.

[Nibbler]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

Info > How to wind up a company that owes you money

[Nibbler]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

Also I would imagine that any surveyor would have some nice equipment and computers etc that a HCEO would love to get their mits on?

[GulDukat]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

Or, in those three weeks, they could strip the company of its assets, set up another company and leave the original company to be wound up with bugger all to pay to the judgement creditor.

Yes, this came up in my conversation earlier with a third party who offer high court bailiff services. The advantage of bailiffs is there is no notice whatsoever - no preparation time. It has to be dealt with on the day.

I'm almost certainly going down the bailiff route now.

[labman]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

In answer to your question, if the company does not have the money, and does not have assets to seize to the value of your debt, there is no point going that route as you will pay the HCEO's (who are brilliant and often the best way to recover debts over £600) and they will be frustrated.

If the company has money, but not in assets, the HCEO's may try to persuade the debtor to agree to a repayment arrangement. Are there anything like company cars involved? HCEO's can visit any premises where they have good reason to believe company assets are being held.

I have to repeat though, if they don't have the assets, I'm not sure why you would instruct HCEO's.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

I have to repeat though, if they don't have the assets, I'm not sure why you would instruct HCEO's.

He thinks he's Cardassian? (link) :nerd:

A Third-Party Debt Order would appear to be more sensible.

[GulDukat]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

He thinks he's Cardassian? (link) :nerd:

A Third-Party Debt Order would appear to be more sensible.

The official court forms warn that the "...defendant will know about the order and may stop paying money into the account.".

The defendant is Bajoran.

[GulDukat]

Re: Got judgement but defendant won't pay - Winding up petition or bailiffs?

In answer to your question, if the company does not have the money, and does not have assets to seize to the value of your debt, there is no point going that route as you will pay the HCEO's (who are brilliant and often the best way to recover debts over £600) and they will be frustrated.

If the company has money, but not in assets, the HCEO's may try to persuade the debtor to agree to a repayment arrangement. Are there anything like company cars involved? HCEO's can visit any premises where they have good reason to believe company assets are being held.

I have to repeat though, if they don't have the assets, I'm not sure why you would instruct HCEO's.

It's a good point, and one I've discussed with my legal advisor and the HCEO body. The only other viable option is a winding up petition, which has a couple of disadvantages. Firstly the defendant will be given notice of winding up: 21 days. That means 21 days to prepare for closure of the company, and probably devoid of any motivation of actions to repay me. Secondly, the HCEO body said that ultimately they would effectively close the defendants business down if they refused to pay by removing goods from their offices. I'm not sure if this would completely disable their business or not, but it would definitely harm the business.

I'm still learning along the way, but in terms of getting my money back I need to choose the option which maximises that possibility. Alas there is no guarantee I will get anything. Proof that if you have no morals you can make money hand over foot.