Sent for Credit Report

[Nibbler]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

So, is your reason for asking that you want to get rid of the defaulted account on your report, or purely the enforceability issue?

(as I noticed you started by checking your credit report)

It being unenforceable will not get rid of any default. However, as DCAs and creditors are notoriously bad at reporting correct info, there may other avenues for removing or correcting one if it is not accurate.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

I have not received a seperate T & C and there is absolutely nothing from them about PPI.
After looking through my statements, I can't see where any was added as part of my repayments.

Out of curiosity, I just have to ask: Is there a reason why the card image on the top right hand corner of the application form has the map of Australia?

With regards to their response to your CCA request, I'd be sending Moorcroft the following letter: :thumb:

Dear Sirs

Account No/Reference No: [ENTER NUMBER]

On [DATE] I wrote requesting a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account. In response to this request I was supplied a document (copy attached) that did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974), because it does not contain all the necessary prescribed terms. The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contains the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in s.61(1) of the CCA(1974) and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

The documents I received appear to be missing the prescribed terms required by section 60(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The recent McGuffick and Carey cases confirmed that a lender should submit upon request a valid true copy of the original CCA and also went on to suggest that both the creditor and debtors name and address are clearly displayed - the Judge dealt with this point at paragraph 60 of his judgement when he said this:

"As a matter of common sense It is difficult to see how a copy of a document can omit the names of the parties. It might he thought that the address of the debtor, however, was immaterial, at least to the debtor, who can be assumed to know what it was at the time, if different from his present address. However, as noted above any application of the concept of materiality must not override the requirements of section 78 and the Copies Regulations properly understood. In my view it is clear that the name and address must be provided"

Whilst I appreciate and understand the provision of the recent Carey v HSBC case that stipulates a reconstituted agreement can be provided, I'd like to also point out that I am disputing the actual existence of such an original, which means the Carey case is irrelevant as without one the account would still be deemed unenforceable. Carey only went to prove that if you could not provide an original, for whatever reason, but had proof on your systems/records that certain conditions were in place at that time then a recon could be submitted only in-so-far as to satisfy your s.78 request. If you do not have an original then a recon cannot be produced.

The OFT Guidance clearly states that lenders would be acting unfairly, and potentially in breach of their consumer credit licenses, if they misled borrowers by:

• hiding or disguising the fact that there was never a proper signed agreement in the first place
• providing only a copy of the current terms and conditions, not the original ones

Similarly, in line with recent OFT Guidance surrounding Unenforceability, the OFT has stipulated the following;
Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements. Under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

• a copy of their agreement
• copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
• a statement of account

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:

• make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
• get a court judgment against the debtor

As this account is clearly unenforceable, I expect you to write back and confirm that no further action will be taken and that the account is now closed and no further correspondence will take place.

Yours faithfully,

[Helpseeker]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

Hi Nibbler,

Ideally it was the enforceability issue. I have been paying them for years without really questioning why.

It would be good to know how to do that. I would want to get rid of the default notice, as they are the only one showing.

I also have other dca's I am currently paying that are not registered on my credit report. I have cca'd them and received a few responses.

Moorcroft are the only one that replied like they have.
I believe that the deadline for responses is either tomorrow or on Friday 16th.

Regards.

[Nibbler]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

In that case, how old is this default?

And is it accurately dated considering the account history? e.g. normally within 6 months or when payments total 3 months in arrears?

[Nibbler]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

ICO guidance on filing defaults > http://www.ico.org.uk/~/media/docume...%20%20doc.ashx

A somewhat confusing read, but if you have a careful look through that you may get some insight into whether the one you have has been correctly applied or not.

[Helpseeker]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

The c/card a/c was created in May 2000.

I received 3 default notices.
- The first dated 19th July 2005
- The second dated 1st Nov 2005
- The third dated 8th Nov 2005

I received a Notice of Sums in Arrears dated 29 Dec 2008 saying that I failed to make two consecutive payments.

I received a post office repayment book from Moorcroft dated May 2007.

In that case, how old is this default?

And is it accurately dated considering the account history? e.g. normally within 6 months or when payments total 3 months in arrears?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

Hi Nibbler,

Ideally it was the enforceability issue. I have been paying them for years without really questioning why.

Better late than never... :grin:

It would be good to know how to do that. I would want to get rid of the default notice, as they are the only one showing.

Unless it was recorded in error, I don't see that happening, even though the account is unenforceable, they still have the right to record a default, as per McGuffick v RBS, where it was established that reporting to the CRAs did not amount to enforcement. :rant:

The judge found that:

• The effect of unenforceability under section 65 was that the rights of the creditor and corresponding liability or obligations of the debtor did exist but were unenforceable.
• The reporting to CRAs and related activities did not constitute enforcement for the purposes of the Act. No question arose therefore of the borrower being entitled to an injunction restraining the bank from continued reporting to the CRAs or from taking any of the other steps.

I also have other dca's I am currently paying that are not registered on my credit report. I have cca'd them and received a few responses.

Would you care to tell us more about these? :typing:

Moorcroft are the only one that replied like they have.
I believe that the deadline for responses is either tomorrow or on Friday 16th.

Most DCAs probably won't be able to comply within the timescales due to the need to go back to the original lender to request documents. If these debts aren't on your credit report, presumably they were defaulted over six years ago, in which case they'll probably struggle to locate anything. :thumb:

[Helpseeker]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

Thanks for sending the link. I will have a read of the ico document.

[Helpseeker]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

Flaming Parrot,

It's good to see that someone else has received similar information. I am extremely happy to know about it being unenforceable :clap2: It is the largest payment I have been making to a dca. It may only be £20 per month, but that's a fair chunk to me, especially when there is still a lot of month left over.
It is good you received that result

Was that all you got in response to your CCA request? :noidea:

That's just an application form, :ohwell: none of the prescribed terms that make up a properly executed credit agreement are present on there. :nono: I got a very similar response to my CCA request from RBS in 2010, and it was deemed 100% unenforceable on two separate forums, :grin: :grin: and it's coming up to two years since I last heard anything about this account. :bounce:

If that's everything you received, I'd say much the same applies, i.e. it would be unenforceable due to lack of any terms from inception. :thumb: Did they send you separate T&Cs by any chance? Anything about the PPI? :confused2:

[Helpseeker]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

Yes, there are at least 6 others to do with c/cards, loans, car insurance ppi (which I posted up here as I received a cheque today) http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...g-Is-Not-Right

Should I post them up as seperate entries?

I noticed on other threads that a lot of the responses are received by the 'debtors' after the stated deadlines.

Better late than never... :grin:

Unless it was recorded in error, I don't see that happening, even though the account is unenforceable, they still have the right to record a default, as per McGuffick v RBS, where it was established that reporting to the CRAs did not amount to enforcement. :rant:


Would you care to tell us more about these? :typing:

Most DCAs probably won't be able to comply within the timescales due to the need to go back to the original lender to request documents. If these debts aren't on your credit report, presumably they were defaulted over six years ago, in which case they'll probably struggle to locate anything. :thumb:

[Helpseeker]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

I saw the image, but didn't realise that it was Australia?
I have no idea about the relation or why it's there.

Thank so much for the letter. I'll get it sorted :whip:

Out of curiosity, I just have to ask: Is there a reason why the card image on the top right hand corner of the application form has the map of Australia?

With regards to their response to your CCA request, I'd be sending Moorcroft the following letter: :thumb:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

It's good to see that someone else has received similar information. I am extremely happy to know about it being unenforceable :clap2: It is the largest payment I have been making to a dca. It may only be £20 per month, but that's a fair chunk to me, especially when there is still a lot of month left over.
It is good you received that result

Indeed it is, especially when you consider I've been paying £0/pcm since 2010! :grin: But there's more than that, as long as you are making payments, the debt will never go Statute Barred, and, depending on the alleged amount, £20/month could well be neither here nor there, i.e. not enough to clear the debt within a reasonable period of time, merely keeping it alive for as long as you keep paying.

Yes, there are at least 6 others to do with c/cards, loans, car insurance ppi (which I posted up here as I received a cheque today) http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...g-Is-Not-Right

Should I post them up as seperate entries?

Yes please, that would avoid getting it all mixed up.:thumb:

With regards to the PPI, I'll leave that side of things on Di's capable hands :yo: she is the PPI expert along with Turboman :yo: and Bill-K :yo: We have an excellent PPI team here on LB, :first: you should see the spreadsheets these guys use! :nerd: :nerd: :nerd:

I noticed on other threads that a lot of the responses are received by the 'debtors' after the stated deadlines.

The timescales are not really enforceable on the debtor's side, the principle is that, as long as they are in default of your CCA request, the debt will be unenforceable. Once they respond, it may or may not be enforceable, depending on what they respond with. This is more relevant when you are not paying, in your case, as you've been making your agreed payments, it makes little difference and it's probably wiser to keep paying until they respond just to be on the safe side, after all you've been paying for 6 years... :clock:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

I saw the image, but didn't realise that it was Australia?
I have no idea about the relation or why it's there.

I was just wondering whether it was an OZ credit card... :noidea: :confused2:

Thank so much for the letter. I'll get it sorted :whip:

My pleasure. :yo: Try to send it recorded delivery if you can afford it, and sign it using a computer font rather than your real signature to be on the safe side. :thumb:

[labman]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

Errrrrr am I reading this right or are you saying that you've saved the OP's personal details to your personal computer ?
Apologies if I've read it wrong.

No I haven't Sapphy - I'm not that daft. They were saved purely to get them onto the site and then deleted. Remember my computer is DPA compliant so has exceeding tight password protected security vaults in which anything like this is placed immediately anyway. As soon as they were sorted, which took a couple of hours at least, the details were deleted.

Is this a problem? I'd already seen the OP's personal details from the two initial attempts to download them anyway. I pm'd her with a small part of what I'd seen to confirm it was them - it was.

[labman]

Re: Sent for Credit Report

I didn't know you employed a "Housekeeper" Labman :grin:

One has to keep up with the Jones, Plan B