car repossesion help urgently

[maverick46]

i have a friend who bought a car on finance the payments were made with noproblems - 6 months after she traded it in for another vehicle financed throughthe same company - although the car sales place took the car back and gave heranother one the outstanding finance was just added to the next car so the debtincreased with all sorts of credit charges within a couple of months the carsales company contacted her to talk her into exchanging her car for another"better" car again the car company took the original car back andsold it but the outstanding finance was again carried over to the third car thedebt now totalling over £16,000!!! so she is was paying for 3 different cars -then her life fell to pieces she lost her job relationship home etc she went tothe company she bought the car from and asked for help but they refused to help- she went into default and they hounded her and her mother and hounded her ather new job (which resulted in her losing that job!!) they intimidated her intosigning a voluntary reposession - the finance company then passed the debt to a collector who houndedher constantly and have increased her debt by over £1,000 in charges - i havebeen trying to help and we have written to the finance company and thecollectors - once we began to dispute the whole situation the finance companytook the account back from the collectors - at the moment we are waiting for an SAR response (which i dont think they will do as the 40 days are nearly up). but I have a few questions which i cant seem to find answers to
1) when the cars were part exchanged why wasnt money from the resale given back to my friend to pay off outstanding finance? as this means the car company havehad two lots of money for the one vehicle
2) when they forced my friend to give up the vehicle it was taken from her works private car park - i thought a vehicle could not be repossesed from thirdparty land?
3) when the last car was sold at auction they did not inform her they were doing so - i thought under the CCA they had to inform her of where and when it was going to auction
4) i thought they had to issue a repossession order at least 15 days beforethey were going to attempt to take the vehicle
5) i thought it was against the law to sell a vehicle that still has outstandingfinance on it? so how did they manage to do this through all the exchanges ofthe vehicles involved.
6) although we have said this account is in dispute and askedfor an SAR they are still sending threatening letters from thier litigation dept - demanding income/expenditure forms are filled in and an offer of repayment made - are they allowed to do this?
i really need to help my friend because this is just sending her over the edgeshe is in such a state and i do not exaggerate when i say she is near suicidle- please please help us on these points
they are threatening court action!!!! alsohave an additional question - they did issue her with a default notice does onenotice suffice for the whole time this is going on or if she comes to an agreementand then defaults again do they have to issue another notice or is the originalone the only one they need?
please please please we really need help to try and get this sorted or myfriend is going to end up paying these guys for the rest of her natural!!!!

[bluebottle]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

When you say intimidation was used to get someone to agree to a voluntary repossession, could you give better details, please? I am also very concerned that the finance company was not deducting what they achieved at auction on the cars the person had traded in. How many payments had the person made on the third car when the repossession took place? If it was the minimum legal required to force the finance company to obtain a court order, then the repossession may be unlawful or, possibly, illegal.

[kanine]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

As I understand it a company can only be paid once. what appears to be happening here is double damages the charges on the first car are being added to the second even though it should have been repaid i.e the company sold the car and got it's money back ( they will be allowed some profit) but are they then adding further interest on to the interest from the first loan? which is then paid along with the second car and it's charges. I don't think this rolling up is allowed particularly with items that would be covered with the consumer credit act. Also have the cars been sold to your friend at the correct value? are the car suppliers independent of the finance Co? ( they may appear to be ! )

[bluebottle]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

The funds achieved at auction should have been used to reduce any outstanding amount on the finance. It sounds it has not and has, more than likely, been pocketed by someone who is not entitled to do so.

Could the OP give better details of the intimidation used to obtain the voluntary repossession, please? The reason I am asking this is because the finance company may be in breach of the law in more ways than one.

Which finance company is involved, please, and, also, who is the motor dealer?

[maverick46]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

hi thank you for responding - with the repossession two big blokes turned up at my friends place of work and demanded the car and then made her sign a piece of paper which said voluntary repossession - as she says it she was crying and begging them not to take the car but they took it from the car park where she worked - I thought they could not take the car from third party land? I got her to get a statement of account from the company but instead of printing off her account they did a spread sheet mock up of it - which I thought was weird - however there are two amounts on the account one for 1839.63 and 1710.37 which add up to the invoice total for the auction sale so I am assuming this is the proceeds of the sale - according to the figures I have done it would appear she had paid more than a third when they repossessed but as they wont give us a proper print out of the account it is impossible to determine whether the right interest and charges etc were refunded - the reason my friend came to me is that I am an accountant and she thought I could help with the account etc but this goes much deeper than this as between the car company and finance company she got well and truly ripped off

[maverick46]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

hi thank you for stepping in - between both companies they really did a number on my friend financially as each time she traded a car in they only appear to have given her 50% value on what she originally paid!! the finance company wont give a proper printing on the account when we asked for one we got a spread sheet mock up of only the last car finance - they have definitely rolled over interest and charges but I cant calculate how right or wrong their figures are as they wont give us any information - also since I originally posted she has had a letter from shoosmiths solicitors demanding money so I did a letter for her telling them to go do one as this was in dispute!! so they wrote back and said they were dropping the case and referring it back to the finance company! don't know if the two companies are connected - how would I find this out?

[bluebottle]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

It looks to me that your friend needs to speak to her local Trading Standards Department asap. Most TSDs have at least one TSO (Trading Standards Officer) who specialises in financial matters.

If your friend had paid more than one-third of the amount under the finance agreement, the repossession was, almost certainly, unlawful without a court order. The fact that coercion and intimidation has been used, not to mention some very dodgy accounting, means the TSOs may take the matter further. Please be aware that law enforcement agencies, which includes Trading Standards, share intelligence with each other and there is a possibility they may pass details on to, say, for example, police, HMRC, FCA. Your input, as an accountant, may be important.

[pt2537]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

Ok few things id look at.

Firstly need to make sure this was a Hire Purchase agreement that she entered into.

Secondly, check if she has paid more than one third of the total price of the goods, and if so, then if the repossession was not done with the debtors informed consent (See Pitcher v Chartered Trust) then she may have a challenge for retaking potentially protected goods.

There are of course other issues to look at here, such as the fairness of the relationship with the car dealers / finance company, it sounds somewhat unfair what has happened, especially with the rolling up of the debts.

Of course all the facts are not clear currently, but this is certainly something that should be looked at.

[maverick46]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

hi thank you also for responding it is great to be getting some help - as I said in one of my other replies I am an accountant so the finer points of law concerning this are a bit beyond me - though I sure am learning fast!!! in another reply I did show the two amounts put on the account which add up to the invoice total of the auction sale but then there is no clear indication if my assumption is correct - when they took the car they sent two heavies to her work place who claimed to be baliffs and they took the car despite her weeping and begging them not to and then made her sign a piece of paper saying it was a voluntary repossession!!! but among her paperwork I did find a document from the debt collection agency close assist where they stated they were going to take the car from her home but this was dated the 28.10.2009 and the arrangement to take the car was dated 16.11.2009 - but the voluntary surrender authority they made her sign when they took the car from her work place is dated 12.10.2009 so it looks like the debt company didn't know what it was doing - should say once we called the account into dispute the debt company washed its hands of it and gave it straight back to the finance company - the company that sold her the cars is sewards and the finance company is gmac - thanks again for all the help!

[maverick46]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

on the contract from gmac the finance company it says on the head of it "pre contract information" then underneath it has " hire purchase agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974" - according to the figures I have looked at calculating mis sold PPI on the first two cars returning interest and charges etc she had paid the final credit given on the last car in full when they took the car!! but without gmac willing to hand over a copy of her full account (despite a sar being submitted and paid for) can I go on my assumptions of the finance and push for illegal repossession?

[maverick46]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

so would trading standards just advise her or would they take over the case completely? as looking at the two contracts from the companies involved it looks like there might be kick backs from the car dealership sewards and the finance company gmac - as there is differences in the amounts the companies were charging her

[pt2537]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

so would trading standards just advise her or would they take over the case completely? as looking at the two contracts from the companies involved it looks like there might be kick backs from the car dealership sewards and the finance company gmac - as there is differences in the amounts the companies were charging her

Trading standards would not run the case for her, they would however deal with any criminal / unfair trading breaches, or at least thats how its supposed to work but i wouldnt hold your breath.

So we have established that the agreement was a hire purchase agreement.

Now we need to establish how much the price of the goods were, and how much she actually paid under that agreement, then look at the two sums and go from there.

[bluebottle]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

pt2537 is more learned than I where the CCA and loans are concerned. My background is in Criminal Law.

It sounds very much that by calling themselves "bailiffs", the two heavies you describe may have put themselves in breach of Section 135, County Courts Act 1984. It is an indictable offence, per se, to pretend to be acting under the authority of a court. In order to lawfully repossess a vehicle where the minimum number of payments required have passed, the finance company would need a court order. You could press the finance company to furnish a copy of the court order they obtained, but, to be honest, I wouldn't hold your breath. IMHO, it would do no harm to speak to Trading Standards, if only to get an opinion from them as to the legal technicalities of your friend's case. If Trading Standards decide to take the case on, please be aware that there is a likelihood they will share details with other law enforcement agencies. Although TSOs have wide-ranging powers in some respects, sometimes, they need the assistance of the police to overcome limitations in their powers. Bear that in mind.

[pt2537]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

90 Retaking of protected hire-purchase etc. goods.

(1)At any time when—

(a)the debtor is in breach of a regulated hire-purchase or a regulated conditional sale agreement relating to goods, and

(b)the debtor has paid to the creditor one-third or more of the total price of the goods, and

(c)the property in the goods remains in the creditor,

the creditor is not entitled to recover possession of the goods from the debtor except on an order of the court.

91 Consequences of breach of s. 90.

If goods are recovered by the creditor in contravention of section 90—

(a)the regulated agreement, if not previous terminated, shall terminate, and

(b)the debtor shall be released from all liability under the agreement,

and shall be entitled to recover from the creditor all sums paid by the debtor under the agreement.

The above are the relevant provisions of the CCA 1974 that cover Hire Purchase

the question is was the 1/3 price paid under this agreement? thats what needs to be established

[CleverClogs]

Re: car repossesion help urgently

pt2537 is more learned than I where the CCA and loans are concerned. My background is in Criminal Law.

Whereas I am, well, just another clever clogs. :grin:

I sure am learning fast!

Art thou from the American colonies?