Tenancy Guarantor

[Kthrpr]

I'm new here so I hope I've got this in the right section.

5 years ago I signed as guarantor for my niece's tenancy agreement. She was on benefits and it was always paid 4 weeks in arreas. I would get a letter from the landlord each month telling me this.

This year my niece started university and her benefits got messed up hence she defaulted on her rent. They evicted her about 5/6 weeks ago and arranged a payment plan with her.

Today I have received a phonecall from them telling me that she has not paid, am I still liable even though the tenancy arrangement is over and I have not signed into no payment plan nor did I have a letter informing me of such a plan.

i need advice before I speak to them as I like to get my facts right first.

thankyou

[Eloise01]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

If you signed a legal agreement as a guarantor then you are still liable if she has failed to pay. Assuming the agreement you signed is legally valid then it's not up to them to inform you of payment plans that your niece agrees and then defaults on. I would suggest a conversation with your niece may be in order? it is her debt that has landed on you, and she needs to take some respo0nsibility since you were kind enough to provide her with this security in the first place.

[PlanB]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

5 years ago I signed as guarantor for my niece's tenancy agreement. She was on benefits and it was always paid 4 weeks in arreas. I would get a letter from the landlord each month telling me this.

This year my niece started university and her benefits got messed up hence she defaulted on her rent. They evicted her about 5/6 weeks ago and arranged a payment plan with her.

Today I have received a phonecall from them telling me that she has not paid, am I still liable even though the tenancy arrangement is over and I have not signed into no payment plan nor did I have a letter informing me of such a plan.

There is no such legal document as a five year tenancy agreement (the maximum is three years after that it has to be a licence). This could mean that your niece rented the property on a 6 or 12 month tenancy agreement and when that expired she became a Statutory Periodic Tenant which is typically a one month rolling contract. I may be right in this case since you say since she wasn't evicted until a few weeks ago. This is crucial because in some cases (but not all) guarantor agreements are confined to "the original lease term" which would mean your legal obligation as guarantor may have expired a long time ago.

You need to get hold of a copy of the original tenancy agreement and the original guarantor agreement which you signed. There is no standard form or statutory Guarantor Agreement (unlike a tenancy agreement which must contain certain prescribed information) so the wording on your one may be sufficiently sloppy that the Landlord will struggle to collect money from you. The onus is on the Landlord to prove that you are liable for this debt and not the other way round. The first thing the Landlord should provide you with is a complete breakdown of all rent due and all payments received since the tenancy began. That should keep him busy for a week or two

What about the deposit? The Housing Act was amended in April 2007 to make it a legal obligation for the Landlord to insure the deposit in a Government backed scheme. If they fail to comply with the legislation it makes it impossible to (a) evict the tenant and/or (b) collect rent in some (but not all) circumstances. Your neice may not have know about this if her flat was respossessed without her having the benefit of legal advice or representation at the hearing (did she go to the hearing?). In the very least the Landlord should offset the rent owed (if it's owed) against the deposit which I bet you paid too! And if there's any Housing Benefit outstanding then that too should be offset against the rent.

Come back with a little more information when you've done your research. This Landlord may not be automatically entitled to the debt even if you are still the guarantor in legal terms

[Kthrpr]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

If I signed as a guarantor 5 years ago, this was not witnessed by an independent party. I have asked for copy of the agreement and for all statements, they have promised to send theses out today. When I signed up I didn't realise it would be for life of the tenancy agreement, I am sure that she has had to sign further agreements which I had not agreed to being guarantor for.

Sorry I know I'm just ranting on now, but I am also in financial difficulty and this is the last thing I need right now.

[PlanB]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

, I am sure that she has had to sign further agreements which I had not agreed to being guarantor for.

That would be most likely. So why not ask her if she has a copy of any of them because a new tenancy agreement would overtake the previous one in legal terms I doubt you would have signed anything which said "and I will guarantee the rent due in any future contracts which haven't even been offered, agreed and signed yet"! And on each new one the deposit must be unprotected and reprotected in order to comply with the law or there can be negative consequences for the Landlord.

How much money is the Landlord claiming?

[Kthrpr]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

I am waiting for all statements. It all got out of hand when my niece went to Uni and her housing benefit stopped for some reason, she managed to sort it out with them but actually wanted eviction so held back with the money. I am probably still liable but am just clutching at straws here.

[Eloise01]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

her housing benefit stopped for some reason, she managed to sort it out with them but actually wanted eviction so held back with the money.

Regardless of whether you have to pay it, I woulkd have to comment that this young woman's behaviour is reprehensible. She has incurred a debt, she has received the money to pay that debt and has deliberately failed to do so. She has potentially left the debt to her aunt to pay off for her. And she has fraudulently claimed rent money from benefits - it may not be fraud in law, but it certainly is in intent. If people want to leave their housing, there are honest ways to do it - no matter what the circumstances. If she is like this at so young an age, it is scary to contemplate what she thinks the world will owe her in a few more years time. I do hope that she is making efforts to grow up.

[enquirer]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

I am waiting for all statements. It all got out of hand when my niece went to Uni and her housing benefit stopped for some reason, she managed to sort it out with them but actually wanted eviction so held back with the money.

If you could prove that she deliberately defaulted, thus rendering you liable as guarantor, you would then be able to pursue her for damages.

[Inca]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

Rule No 1....NEVER stand guarantor for family..EVER..so basically..what you are saying is she received the HB for the rent but deliberately didn't cough it up and forced the eviction? Does she realise how much (potential) trouble she could be in? You can't get money from the government to pay for housing and then do what you like with it..that's morally,ethically and hopefully legally wrong.
If I was the Landlord I sure as hell would chase you for the money hoping you'd get so hacked off you'd get it off your niece.
People like her ,who fiddle the benefits system that is in place to help the vulnerable and needy, make it a minefield for those GENUINELY in need of help.
My advice would be,instead of trying to find a (hopefully impossible) 'Get out of rent liability' loophole,would be to get hold of this niece,who has dropped you right in the mire and get her to cough up what she owes before you are possibly forced to,just for being a nice Aunty.
(and before anyone goes apoplectic at my stance,,I'm an Aunty/Gt Aunty,sister,niece,Godmother many times over and wouldn't sign a guarantee for any of them,,money is the easiest route to irrevocable family rifts.
My own son wouldn't even ask..he knows better :rofl:

[wales01man]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

Inca
You put down in words what most of us are thinking,the OPs niece has stolen benefit money nothing else she should be taken to court as for the OP why havent they just asked the niece for the money or pay up and report her for theft of taxpayers money

[teaboy2]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

Have to agree with what others have said here about your niece. If she deliberately withheld her housing benefit money and used it for other purposes then she has in fact committed a criminal offence i.e Fraud!!

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

If I signed as a guarantor 5 years ago, this was not witnessed by an independent party. I have asked for copy of the agreement and for all statements, they have promised to send theses out today. When I signed up I didn't realise it would be for life of the tenancy agreement, I am sure that she has had to sign further agreements which I had not agreed to being guarantor for.

Sorry I know I'm just ranting on now, but I am also in financial difficulty and this is the last thing I need right now.

How can you be so sure? Many tenants just stay on a monthly basis after the initial agreement, the idea of having to sign new agreements every year or so seems a lot more common in some parts of the country than others. Surely if they are pursuing you for the money, they will have to show you all the documents that were signed... You should ask her whether she signed further agreements you were not aware of, or not. :noidea:

[Inca]

Re: Tenancy Guarantor

You need to get hold of this niece (would be by the throat if she was mine!)..and get every single detail about the rent/lease/tenancy that she can produce.
I have to say,,on re reading your original post....I would be a tad concerned that the LL has contacted you...it's either the LL taking pot luck that you will cough up.......or LL KNOWS you're liable..either way,Niece needs rattling into action.I'm sure you haven't envisaged this happening and won't have the spare funds lying around whereas Niece HAS had it and has probably spent it.
Time to bite the bullet and put Niece on notice for the paperwork.