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I sent this letter to Experto Credite (DCA) in response to the CCA documents they supplied. Please see link
http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...e-if-complaint
I know this is not my application as my first name was spelt incorrectly and not my handwriting and I did it online. So I sent this letter in response
Dear Sirs
Account No: xyz
Having recently requested a copy of the alleged original Credit Agreement (CCA), in line with s.78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I was disappointed to receive what can only be described as a fraudulent document, for the following reasons:
[Name spelt incorrectly
Not my handwriting
and I wouldn't sign against incorrect name
Kindly take a look at the following article which may shed some light on what the law considers a 'True Copy' - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8393768.stm I quote, from this article: ""And on the other hand concern that some creditors appear not to understand the nature and extent of their obligations under these sections..."
The OFT advises that lenders would be acting unfairly, and potentially in breach of their consumer credit licenses, if they misled borrowers by:
hiding or disguising the fact that there was never a proper signed agreement in the first place
providing only a copy of the current terms and conditions, not the original ones
Sending me a document that clearly was not in place at the time I applied for the card, I think we can both agree that this does indeed directly breach OFT Guidance.
The recent McGuffick and Carey cases confirmed that a lender should submit upon request a valid true copy of the original CCA. In MBNA v McCullagh; the Judge ruled;
"The terms and conditions are plainly not a copy of those on the original agreement. There may only be one difference identified (it is difficult to tell from the illegible copy of the original) but that is enough. The obligation is to provide "a copy of the executed agreement".
This plainly cannot be a copy of the original agreement. It is not open to the claimant to say that the difference is 'de minimis'. They have to provide a copy of the original (reconstituted or otherwise)"
There are also several other recent cases that alleviate the Carey Judgment such as Hayes v HFC, at Blackpool county court in July 2010. She successfully overturned a charging order on her home. Judge Bell agreed that the reconstituted agreement was not accurate. Then you have the case of Kotecha v Phoenix in which Phoenix attempted to recover a debt owed on a HFC bank credit card. The appeal judges agreed the bank had not been able to supply an accurate copy of the original agreement.
In light of the above, I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to hearing from you within 30 days.
Yours faithfully
The response i got from them recently was:
Thank you for your letter dated xxxxx the comments of which have been noted.
Please be assured that the documents were provided to us by the original creditor and have been provided to you in good faith.
Our records indicate that you have maintained payments towards reducing the outstanding balance on this account and you have repaid a total of £xxx since 2009. We also note that you have previously offered a reduced amount to settle the account in full and final settlement. This amount was declined and subsequently we received a request for a copy of your agreement under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
We are not the original creditor, therefore if you are claiming that this is a fraud situation may we suggest that you report this incident to the police.
you will then need to contact HBOS fraud department by letter and enclose two forms of identification which contain your signature and photo. HBOS also request that they are provided with the crime ref number, that you obtained from the police and details of the fraud that you beleive has been committed. The receipt of this information will enable HBOS Fraud department to investigate these matters and respond. You can contact HBOS at the following adress xxxxxxx.
If you do this and copy us in with your letter within the next 21 days, then we will suspend collections activity whilist the matter is reviwed by HBOS.
We will suspend collections activity for 21 days to allow you time to contact HBOS.
Now what do I do with this as why should I have to put in fraud case it's them that has supplied me with dodgy looking application. Any advice please
http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...e-if-complaint
I know this is not my application as my first name was spelt incorrectly and not my handwriting and I did it online. So I sent this letter in response
Dear Sirs
Account No: xyz
Having recently requested a copy of the alleged original Credit Agreement (CCA), in line with s.78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I was disappointed to receive what can only be described as a fraudulent document, for the following reasons:
[Name spelt incorrectly
Not my handwriting
and I wouldn't sign against incorrect name
Kindly take a look at the following article which may shed some light on what the law considers a 'True Copy' - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8393768.stm I quote, from this article: ""And on the other hand concern that some creditors appear not to understand the nature and extent of their obligations under these sections..."
The OFT advises that lenders would be acting unfairly, and potentially in breach of their consumer credit licenses, if they misled borrowers by:
hiding or disguising the fact that there was never a proper signed agreement in the first place
providing only a copy of the current terms and conditions, not the original ones
Sending me a document that clearly was not in place at the time I applied for the card, I think we can both agree that this does indeed directly breach OFT Guidance.
The recent McGuffick and Carey cases confirmed that a lender should submit upon request a valid true copy of the original CCA. In MBNA v McCullagh; the Judge ruled;
"The terms and conditions are plainly not a copy of those on the original agreement. There may only be one difference identified (it is difficult to tell from the illegible copy of the original) but that is enough. The obligation is to provide "a copy of the executed agreement".
This plainly cannot be a copy of the original agreement. It is not open to the claimant to say that the difference is 'de minimis'. They have to provide a copy of the original (reconstituted or otherwise)"
There are also several other recent cases that alleviate the Carey Judgment such as Hayes v HFC, at Blackpool county court in July 2010. She successfully overturned a charging order on her home. Judge Bell agreed that the reconstituted agreement was not accurate. Then you have the case of Kotecha v Phoenix in which Phoenix attempted to recover a debt owed on a HFC bank credit card. The appeal judges agreed the bank had not been able to supply an accurate copy of the original agreement.
In light of the above, I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to hearing from you within 30 days.
Yours faithfully
The response i got from them recently was:
Thank you for your letter dated xxxxx the comments of which have been noted.
Please be assured that the documents were provided to us by the original creditor and have been provided to you in good faith.
Our records indicate that you have maintained payments towards reducing the outstanding balance on this account and you have repaid a total of £xxx since 2009. We also note that you have previously offered a reduced amount to settle the account in full and final settlement. This amount was declined and subsequently we received a request for a copy of your agreement under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
We are not the original creditor, therefore if you are claiming that this is a fraud situation may we suggest that you report this incident to the police.
you will then need to contact HBOS fraud department by letter and enclose two forms of identification which contain your signature and photo. HBOS also request that they are provided with the crime ref number, that you obtained from the police and details of the fraud that you beleive has been committed. The receipt of this information will enable HBOS Fraud department to investigate these matters and respond. You can contact HBOS at the following adress xxxxxxx.
If you do this and copy us in with your letter within the next 21 days, then we will suspend collections activity whilist the matter is reviwed by HBOS.
We will suspend collections activity for 21 days to allow you time to contact HBOS.
Now what do I do with this as why should I have to put in fraud case it's them that has supplied me with dodgy looking application. Any advice please
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