Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

[FORCEOFONE]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

So by assignment, the obligations or duties cannot be assigned unless all three parties agree to it, Or an assignment by "Novation"

You will be amending the old contract between the creditor, the debtor, to include the new creditor

So an assignment under LOP 1925, only the rights of the agreement will be transferred

An assignment under Novation,"rights and liabilities or duties" will be transferred

I take it that is why you cannot go after an assignee of a debt for mis-selling of PPI as an example as the assignment is under LOP 1925, and not a Novation assignment

Or am i going off base

[gravytrain]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

Yes the only way to assign duties under a contract are by novation or consent of all parties.

The LOPA just assigns rights, this is not a problem under an unregulated agreement because all the creditor needs are the rights in order to enforce. HOwever the CCA restricts the right to enforce to the creditor, and then says that the creditor must posess not only the rights but the duties.

This was the argument in the above case, an as the judge said if proven it would make assigned agreements unenforceable under the cca via section 87 and 141, they would fall into a "black hole".

However it was decided ( somewhat conveniently in my view) that when the act said "duties" it was not referring to the common law duties which could not be assigned, but the duties required in order to enforce under the statute, which can be assigned or transferred of course, unless the statute itself says they cant

[FORCEOFONE]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

Thanks for the confirmation

[Nibbler]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

Getting a bit sidetracked here.

Either:

(a) Apex are acting as agents, in which case they are obliged under s175 to pass on the request and fee to their client.

or

(b) there has been an assignment, which as per Jones v Link Financial Ltd [2012] EWHC 2402 (QB) (22 August 2012) Apex would have taken on both the rights AND duties of the creditor.

From the OPs comments and previous threads, seems very very likely that (a) applies.

[Smilesallround]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

Has the account been assigned to APEX, or are the just collecting on behalf of santandar ??


Just need confirmation again

I am not sure if they are telling me to ask Santander i am assuming they are collecting on their behalf. But they are annoying me now.

[Smilesallround]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

What kind of account is this?

Was it an old store card which had been upgraded to a credit card and then bought by Santander Or is it a bank account?

It was a Cahoot flexible loan i think pre 2007.

[Smilesallround]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

I take it you've sent them the letter I suggested, making them aware of their obligations. By the sounds of it, Apex are just acting for Santander. You could, of course, ignore them and wait for the next lot to chase you and, should Apex contact you again, state the account is unenforceable because they've failed your s.78 request. However, if you want to know where you stand with this account in terms of enforceability, you could send the CCA request directly to Santander, as the original creditor they can't get out of their obligation to supply it. Then if you hear from Apex or any other DCA before they respond, you just refer them to your unfulfilled s.78 request.

It's always a good idea to be covered by a CCA request in case someone starts proceedings, also for your own peace of mind. It's different when you are dealing with a debt purchaser that has absolute assignment of the debt, in which case they are the creditor, however, if they are just asking for their client, they can just return the account to Santander and their responsibility for the account will end there.

Without a Notice of Assignment, you should assume Santander still own this debt and go back to them with your CCA request. You should still send it Recorded Delivery so you have proof, Santander will have to comply or the account will be UE! :grin:

Well im thinking of writing to Santander for te CCA and stop making Apex the monthly payment i do and if they start chasing me i refer then to their unfulfilled request. What do you think?

[FORCEOFONE]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

For a start if it is pre April 2007, they will need to send you a copy of the original agreement, not a reconstruction to enforce

Me thinks they are in a bit of trouble with that request

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

Getting a bit sidetracked here.

Either:

(a) Apex are acting as agents, in which case they are obliged under s175 to pass on the request and fee to their client.

or

(b) there has been an assignment, which as per Jones v Link Financial Ltd [2012] EWHC 2402 (QB) (22 August 2012) Apex would have taken on both the rights AND duties of the creditor.

From the OPs comments and previous threads, seems very very likely that (a) applies.

I would tend to agree and yes, they should pass on the request but they are just being silly and wasting the OP's time and money. :rant:

I am not sure if they are telling me to ask Santander i am assuming they are collecting on their behalf. But they are annoying me now.

That seems to be the case.

Well im thinking of writing to Santander for te CCA and stop making Apex the monthly payment i do and if they start chasing me i refer then to their unfulfilled request. What do you think?

That was precisely my suggestion. Although in theory they have the obligation to pass on the request to Santander, you might as well contact Santander directly. As for stopping the payment, up to you whether you do it now or wait for Satan's response to see how enforceable (or otherwise) the agreement (if any) is. :thumb:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

It was a Cahoot flexible loan i think pre 2007.

Ah, well what Plan B was trying to establish was whether it wasn't originally a storecard turned credit card like hers was, in which case you'd have the upper hand: :ohwell: http://paulatwatsonssolicitors.wordp...nder-v-mayhew/

There is quite a long thread on those Cahoot flexiloans here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...ghlight=cahoot

For a start if it is pre April 2007, they will need to send you a copy of the original agreement, not a reconstruction to enforce

Me thinks they are in a bit of trouble with that request

In theory, but Judge Waksman said a recon was acceptable, although he was referring to compliance with s.78 and let's not forget Carey was the claimant. :decision:

If this was applied for online from Jan 2005 onwards, then there wouldn't be an original signed agreement as such, because that's when the infamous tickbox became legally valid as a signature, thus no requirement to send an agreement to sign, just T&Cs that would presumably have been displayed online at the time of ticking the box. :mmph:

[FORCEOFONE]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

In theory, but Judge Waksman said a recon was acceptable, although he was referring to compliance with s.78 and let's not forget Carey was the claimant

That is the part the collection agencies will not tell you, it is in regards to an agreement request by the debtor and a reconstruction is acceptable, but not to be used as enforcement in a civil court

[ODC]

Re: Apex Credit Mgt Reply to my CCA Request for the second time - what do i do?

Personally I wouldnt waste any more time with these clowns. Wait till they send their next threatomatic and then tell them they have failed to comply with your CCA request and until they do you will not enter into any discussion on the matter. They know the law and are just being evasive and trying to bamboozle you.