Been sent a Claim Form by Halifax, please help

[labman]

Re: Been sent a Claim Form by Halifax, please help

I will pm someone for you to answer your ppi question. He is usually only on latish at night though.

[Bill-K]

Re: Been sent a Claim Form by Halifax, please help

Hi Lexis - and thanks to Labman for the PM. Celestine has been very busy with work lately, so she may have missed some of your posts. I see that FP & PT have also been advising here, and I have no wish to step on anybody's toes - however, we're all here to help each other, so I'll venture my 'umble opinion regarding the PPI mis-selling claim.

BoS appear to have sent a final response 2.5 years ago, and your OH appears to have accepted their 'King's Shilling' settlement which was probably quite surreptitiously dropped into his bank account. Sure - this would seem as though he may have missed the boat because he didn't actually reject the settlement. But the decision to re-open the PPI claim still rests with BoS, and ultimately with the FOS and the Courts, I believe.

Presumably, BoS do not have any evidence of OH's acceptance of their offer, in which case they have simply inferred OH's acceptance by the apparent fact that he did not reject the money they placed into his account. Although we generally do not object to having money placed into our bank accounts without our prior permission, it could perhaps be argued that because OH never actually consented to having this sum placed in his account, then he cannot be considered as having knowingly accepted the offer. If OH never responded to the final settlement/offer letter, and never acknowledged receipt of the bank inpayment, it could perhaps be argued that "to the best of OH's knowledge and recollection, no such letter was received."

Failing that, it might perhaps be possible to have acknowledged the bank inpayment, but only as a partial settlement - with the final balance yet to be calculated. OH has kindly allowed them 2.5 years to retrieve their records and do this, but he is still waiting. Meanwhile, he has been researching the matter himself and 'taking advice,' and has now managed to come up with his own calculation of what he considers to be a fair and proper settlement. Presumably, BoS have admitted mis-selling by the very fact that they paid OH a sum of money which they are now insisting was a full & final settlement - or better still - in an earlier letter, other than this fabled settlement offer letter.

So, it appears that PPI mis-selling has been admitted, and OH considers that no proper F&F settlement offer was made, and that 2.5 years is sufficient time for them to have arrived at a fair and proper offer. DISP. APP. 3.9.4 of the FSA/FCA PPI redress guidelines (in Appendices 1 & 2 of PS 10/12 states that any offer of redress must clearly explain how it has been calculated. I doubt if OH received any such explanation.

Regarding penalty charges, where there are individual charges over £12, then these can be reclaimed as unfair penalties, but charges of £12 or less will usually be more difficult. However, if it can be shown that ANY penalties were a direct consequence of mis-sold insurance, then these should be reclaimed. This can be done by using the FSA/FCA's method of calculating a 'Notional Balance,' which is the theoretical balance owing that there would have been on the account if the PPI premiums had not been charged. Usually, this would be Overlimit Fees, where the Notional Balance is below the account limit for that time. Late Payment and other fees could be reclaimed, but they may be challenged. You may already have done all these calculations, but if it helps, there is a spreadsheet that does this in the PPI section here. I'll post a link to it later, along with some of the FSA/FCA rules which might be useful to quote to BoS.

I hope I have been of some help, but I welcome any 'Devil's Advocate' challenges or complete trashings of my suggestions !!!

[Bill-K]

Re: Been sent a Claim Form by Halifax, please help

Credit Card PPI spreadsheet is here:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...lator-programs

You may want to quote some of these. The FSA Handbook on PPI Redress contained within PS 10/12 states:

DISP APP 3.2.1 The firm should consider, in the light of all the information provided by the complainant and otherwise already held by or available to the firm, whether there was a breach or failing by the firm.

DISP APP 3.2.2 The firm should seek to establish the true substance of the complaint, rather than taking a narrow interpretation of the issues raised, and should not focus solely on the specific expression of the complaint. This is likely to require an approach to complaint handling that seeks to clarify the nature of the complaint.

DISP APP 3.2.3 A firm may need to contact a complainant directly to understand fully the issues raised, even where the firm received the complaint from a third party acting on the complainant's behalf. The firm should not use this contact to delay the assessment of the complaint.

DISP APP 3.2.7 The firm should consider all of its sales of payment protection contracts to the complainant in respect of re-financed loans that were rolled up into the loan covered by the payment protection contract that is the subject of the complaint. The firm should consider the cumulative financial impact on the complainant of any previous breaches or failings in those sales.

DISP APP 3.3.1 Where a complaint is made, the firm should assess the complaint fairly, giving appropriate weight and balanced consideration to all available evidence, including what the complainant says and other information about the sale that the firm identifies. The firm is not expected automatically to assume that there has been a breach or failing.

DISP APP 3.3.2 The firm should not rely solely on the detail within the wording of a policy's terms and conditions to reject what a complainant recalls was said during the sale.

DISP APP 3.3.3 The firm should recognise that oral evidence may be sufficient evidence and not dismiss evidence from the complainant solely because it is not supported by documentary proof. The firm should take account of a complainant's limited ability fully to articulate his complaint or to explain his actions or decisions made at the time of the sale.

DISP APP 3.3.4 Where the complainant's account of events conflicts with the firm's own records or leaves doubt, the firm should assess the reliability of the complainant's account fairly and in good faith. The firm should make all reasonable efforts (including by contact with the complainant where necessary) to clarify ambiguous issues or conflicts of evidence before making any finding against the complainant.

DISP APP 3.3.5 The firm should not reject a complainant's account of events solely on the basis that the complainant signed documentation relevant to the purchase of the policy.

DISP APP 3.3.9 In determining a particular complaint, the firm should (unless there are reasons not to because of the quality and plausibility of the respective evidence) give more weight to any specific evidence of what happened during the sale (including any relevant documentation and oral testimony) than to general evidence of selling practices at the time (such as training, instructions or sales scripts or relevant audit or compliance reports on those practices).

DISP APP 3.7.2 Where the firm concludes that the complainant would not have bought the payment protection contract he bought, and the firm is not using the alternative approach to redress (set out in DISP App 3.7.7 E to 3.7.15 E) or other appropriate redress (see DISP App 3.8), the firm should, as far as practicable, put the complainant in the position he would have been if he had not bought any payment protection contract.

DISP APP 3.9.1 Where the complainant’s loan or credit card is in arrears the firm may, if it has the contractual right to do so, make a payment to reduce the associated loan or credit card balance, if the complainant accepts the firm’s offer of redress. The firm should act fairly and reasonably in deciding whether to make such a payment.

DISP APP 3.9.4 The firm should make any offer of redress to the complainant in a fair and balanced way. In particular, the firm should explain clearly to the complainant the basis for the redress offered including how any compensation is calculated and, where relevant, the rescheduling of the loan, and the consequences of accepting the offer of redress.

[labman]

Re: Been sent a Claim Form by Halifax, please help

There you are Lexis a cat (your avatar) doesn't often come across a gorilla willing to help like that!

Thanks Bill - you're a star. I haven't read the thread, but would a SAR be in order? It may already have been done - as I say, I haven't read the thread. :beagle:

[lexis200]

Re: Been sent a Claim Form by Halifax, please help

Hi, thank you very much for such a detailed response!

With regards to the payment BoS made, it was actually in relation to charges on the account (which stood at over 5 times what they paid). I don't think this was ever formally accepted by OH, although I may have referenced it in the subsequent letter.

The PPI part was summarily dismissed by them, twice, but I never took it any further due to personal issues overtaking monetary ones. Also, both the charges and PPI questions were raised within a full and final settlement letter, rather than a standard form.

There are some very interesting points in the information you've posted, and from memory I think you're right about them not explaining how they arrived at their figure for the charges refund. I'll check that.

I've been pondering it today though, and I think I'll whack in a claim again anyway on the correct form on their site. It's not like they can penalise me for asking again in the correct format, and if I then have take it to the FOS and it's a no go, again, it's not really going to cause me any bother. I hope

Thank you so much for your help and thoughts, it's very appreciated. I'll update as and when anything else happens!

lexis

[lexis200]

Re: Been sent a Claim Form by Halifax, please help

There you are Lexis a cat (your avatar) doesn't often come across a gorilla willing to help like that! Well I might have been worried, but luckily I always wear my crash helmet

Thanks Bill - you're a star. I haven't read the thread, but would a SAR be in order? It may already have been done - as I say, I haven't read the thread. :beagle:

[Bill-K]

Re: Been sent a Claim Form by Halifax, please help

There you are Lexis a cat (your avatar) doesn't often come across a gorilla willing to help like that!
LOL - Lexis looks as disgruntled as me, so I felt an empathy with her - especially when she has apparently had her head pushed into the remains of a melon !!!
Thanks Bill - you're a star. I haven't read the thread, but would a SAR be in order? It may already have been done - as I say, I haven't read the thread. :beagle:
Lexis has done a DSAR already (post #5, I think) - but if there might be some more recent data, then it might be worth doing again. "Every Little Helps," as they say at RLP !!! (Soz - a bit of an 'in joke.')

Ah - so...!!!

So the payment made earlier was in response to a reclaim of penalties. I daresay that they perhaps refunded the over £12 ones, and that was that. But it now appears that OH reclaimed mis-sold PPI at the same time, and this was in fact refuted and subsequently abandoned.

A further pursuit of the penalties may still be possible, but it will probably need some better legal arguments than I have put forward.

However, IF we can get an admission of mis-selling, then we have opened another gate. Unfortunately, I thought we had already jumped that hurdle, but it appears not. So - to my tiny mind - we need to get the PPI mis-selling claim re-opened. If this was given a 'Final Response' 2.5 years ago, then I guess we need to be able to convince BoS that we have uncovered further information which may be sufficient to re-open the claim.

But - whack in the claim, and see what the response is. We can then focus a little more sharply on that.

[lexis200]

Re: Been sent a Claim Form by Halifax, please help

Hello

It's been a long time I know, but the awesome Celestine and PT have been working away on this for me in the background, and it's very good news! I'm not sure if I can say anything before it's all done and dusted (plus I don't want to jinx anything ), but suffice to say OH and I are very happy bunnies.

Thank you Cel and PT!! xx