Paypal.

[ploddingon]

Re: Paypal.

Well, I have had the enormous pleasure of corresponding with Paypal for the past few months. It takes a week to 10 days to get a reply from their Executive Escalations Office. I can only imagine that this is because of the crowds of people lining up to complain about getting screwed over. I will copy and paste the correspondence in my next post, then I will outline what I make of it all. Hopefully someone can offer me a bit of sound advice, as I need to take some sort of action against them to access information I need.

[ploddingon]

Re: Paypal.

Hello.
I got chargebacked by a fraudster years ago despite having an international recorded delivery receipt, as the item couldn't be tracked online. Royal Mail told me on the phone that the item had been delivered and I could have got something from them in writing confirming that fact, but you weren't interested and put my account in negative balance because of it. Naturally, I wasn't going to pay off a fraudster, who would, and my account has remained in negative balance ever since. I have never acknowledged this debt or paid anything towards it and am now going to be declaring it statute barred, with no intent to pay, under English law. Before I do anything I want to establish all the facts. First of all, I want to know whether you actually paid the fraudster off, or not, after putting my account in negative balance. I look forward to hearing from you and concluding this matter promptly.
Thank you.

Dear,
Thank you for contacting PayPal. Unfortunately, we are unable to determine the nature of your inquiry. In order to assist you, please provide us with the buyer or seller's email address, along with a case number or other information relevant to this case. We apologize for any inconvenience. Thank you for your cooperation and we look forward to your reply. Don't forget, we're always around if you need us. Just click "Help" in the top right corner of any PayPal page to visit our improved Help Center.
Sincerely,
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company

Hello.
This was my Paypal email address and I am now unable to log in to my account. I would like to take the opportunity to caution you now not to lie. I am a member of Which? consumer association and I will also get my M.P. involved if you give me any more nonsense. If you locate my account, then you will easily be able to see the transaction I am talking about. It must be one of the last ones ever made on the account, if not the last one, and was for several hundred dollars. Moreover, the transaction put my account into negative balance by the said amount, so would be incredibly easy to locate. If Paypal are now claiming no knowledge of this account, then I want the name of a manager who claims full, personal responsibility for looking into this matter and adopting this position. I also wish to talk to this manager on the telephone. Finally, all I need to declare the debt statute barred under English law is my Paypal email address. I am only telling you this in case you get any wacky ideas that by trying to hide the transaction you can stop me doing it. You would be very wrong. I look forward to hearing from you promptly and I assure you I won't be going away until this matter is resolved.
Thank you.

Dear,
Thank you for contacting PayPal in relation to the negative balance on your account. On reviewing your PayPal account I can see it is a locked charge off account due to a negative balance of £460.95 owing since 2002 for a chargeback claim issued on your account. The chargeback was issued for a non receipt of an item and the buyer was refunded leaving your account to become negative. Please contact us on 0208 6100 150 and we will be happy to assist you in resolving the matter.
Yours sincerely,
Collections Department
PayPal

Dear,
firstly, the buyer did receive their item, as confirmed by Royal Mail. However, at the time your company had one of the dumbest rules going, an item had to be trackable online, so you decided to find in favour of an obvious American fraudster. Unfortunately, Royal Mail International Recorded Delivery was not trackable online at the time. Even though Royal Mail confirmed delivery on the telephone, in writing too, it wasn't good enough for Paypal. So, unless you are calling Royal Mail liars, then can we please stick to the facts. The chargeback was issue because an American fraudster 'told you' (lied) that an item hadn't been delivered, even though Royal Mail confirmed otherwise, not because of non receipt of an item. Furthermore, everything else about this whole case stunk. Why would an American order a load of memory sticks from the U.K., paying international shipping in the process, when the sticks were much cheaper in the U.S.? Why would an American attempt a chargeback so soon after ordering an item from the U.K. and not wait a little while for them to arrive? No doubt if this American fraudster had told you there were some gremlins lurking in the Paypal offices you would have immediately evacuated the building and called in the C.I.A.? It certainly wouldn't surprise given some of the garbage your company comes up with. Anyhow, this is all water under the bridge now and I will not debate this with you any further. I didn't contact you to debate any of this further. For the record, I am still in possession of the original International Recorded Delivery receipt.

Secondly, before I proceed, my original query hasn't been answered yet. I will copy and paste it from the bottom of the page for your perusal. Here it is:

'First of all, I want to know whether you actually paid the fraudster off, or not, after putting my account in negative balance.'

I want an answer to this query for my records. Was he paid off by Paypal or not? I will warn you again that I am a member of Which? Consumer Association and I will be approaching them soon, with all the relevant correspondence, if you continue to mess me around. Moreover, if you don't answer me I will tell God to send a plague of locusts to infest the Paypal offices. You obviously must believe me and not think I am making ridiculous claims, as I am telling you it is true. Therefore, it must be true. You seem to believe anything anyone tells you. So there. I want everything in writing at this stage please, unless you wish to make a formal objection, so no telephone calls for now. I look forward to hearing from you with a straightforward and simple answer to my query.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
Thank you for contacting PayPal in relation to the negative balance on your account. The buyer in this case has gone to their credit card provider and requested a chargeback, we have provided all information to the credit card company on your behalf so this could be investigated. Unfortunately the credit card company had found in favour of the card holder and we have had to comply with the chargeback request. Chargeback’s occur when the card company reverses a cleared payment, at the cardholder's request. Cardholders can initiate a chargeback when:

• An item is significantly different from its description or is defective.
• An item isn't received.
• A payment is processed more than once.
• A payment is unauthorised.

You can learn more about chargeback’s from our Chargeback guide:

1. Go to www.paypal.com/uk and log in to your account.
2. Click ‘Safety Advice’ near the top of the page.
3. Near the bottom of the page, click ‘Chargeback guide for sellers.

Please contact us on 0208 6100 150 if you require further assistance.
Yours sincerely,
Collections Department
PayPal

Dear,
I am not asking you whether the buyer actioned a chargeback or not. I know full well he actioned a chargeback. I am asking you whether the buyer recieved the money back in their Paypal account after actioning the chargeback. Actioning a chargeback and actually getting the money back in your account are obviously two different things. For example, the money was not in my account to satisfy his chargeback request. Therefore, he never got his money back from me and could only have got it back from Paypal. I am clearly asking you whether Paypal paid back the money into his account or not. This is a very simple and straight forward question. I will ask yet again:

'Did Paypal pay back the money into this man's account after he actioned his chargeback request?'

Are you trying to be clever and woefully not realising you are not up to being clever? Please, no more messing me around. This is a black and white question with only a black and white answer possible. Either yes or no? Please answer this straightforward and simple question. I look forward, with great hope, to this fast approaching 'Eureka Moment'.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
The buyer has received the refund regarding the charge back case. Thank you for contacting PayPal in relation to the negative balance on your account. Please contact us on 0208 6100 150 if you require further assistance.
Yours sincerely,
Collections Department
PayPal

Dear,
I knew we would get there in the end. Please confirm whether the fraudster's refund was actually paid by Paypal or paid by his credit company? As I previously confirmed, I never paid one penny of it. I just want all the facts laid out before I proceed.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
I am still waiting for a response to my previous email (below). I have already waited a week and it really isn't good enough. Please confirm whether the fraudster's refund was actually paid by Paypal or paid by his credit company? I want this information for my records please and I want it in writing. I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
I wish to initiate the official complaints process that Paypal uses, as I have repeatedly asked a straightforward, fair and simple question and had no response whatsoever. For the record, the unanswered questions is as follows:

'Did the person who intiiated the chargeback agauinst me actually get his refund paid by Paypal or paid by his credit card company?'

I look forward to getting the relevant details through regarding Paypal's official complaints procedure. I can then make an official complaint and have it recorded. If you refuse to respond, then I will go to Which? Consumer Association and publicise my experience. I have a pretty good idea why you are trying hard not to answer, but all be revealed in due course no doubt. You aren't going to wriggle out of this one i'm afraid, as I am not going to go away until the matter is dealt with. I assure you that it will be dealt with one way or the other as well.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
Thank you for your recent email concerning the reversal of funds from your PayPal account back in xxx. Your complaint has been forwarded to the Executive Escalations department for review; please allow us to offer further explanation concerning your issue. We attempted to contact you directly on xxx, but we were unable to reach you at that time.

First of all we wish to apologise for the email responses you have received to date. We can understand these were not addressing your questions correctly resulting in multiple contacts from you. You sincerely regret this and hope to address every question you have.

On xxx we received notification from your buyers funding source (i.e., bank or credit card provider) stating that the transaction for $xxx UAD that was sent you was not authorised. Therefore, we are obligated as a bank to return the funds back to the funding source. At the same time we wish to cover our sellers if a reversal of funds like this happens, this is PayPal’s Seller Protection Programme. We requested tracking information from you to insure the item was sent to your buyer. The policy in xxx was that the tracking information needed to show delivery to the correct address with a signature. Since then the policy has changed to just showing confirmed delivery to the correct address. As there was no signature on the tracking information this case was closed with no Seller Protection offered.

As this case was closed when one policy was in place we can confirm that as it stands it was still closed correctly, however, we would like to offer to bring your account back to a zero balance as a good will gesture. We will issue a courtesy credit of xxx GBP to your PayPal balance, this may take up to 72 hours to complete. We hope we have answered all your questions regarding this case, however, should you have any questions relating to any of the above information please contact us directly at ppelce@paypal.co.uk.
Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalations
PayPal

Dear,
I may accept the resolution, ceasing my enquiries in the process, but what of xxx who also suffered the same fate in xxx? His Paypal email address is xxx and he still has the original dispatch certificate as well, which was copied and dutifully sent to Paypal at the time. It was another obvious case of fraud, as the buyer left him negative feedback because he refused to rush and post the item immediately. This demand was made after the auction had ended and speedy dispatch certainly wasn't advertised. There were some 'pointed' email exchanges and then the buyer later claimed the item hadn't arrived out of pure spite. I am glad your chargeback policies have changed since then, they were ridiculous, but it still amazes me how these people got away with it. I am with xxx right now, xxx still lives with me, and we are both happy to speak to you on the telephone if you wish to. xxx case was for a far smaller amount, so it shouldn't be a problem for you to correct the wrong that was done on the same principle as my case. It has cost us a lot of money selling without Paypal over the years, as buyers didn't pay as much as they would have. It has also cost Paypal a lot of money over the years, as you have missed out on the fees we would have paid. Look at our Ebay feedback profiles and you can see that we are both genuine sellers. It should be an amicable arrangement all round for this matter to be finally resolved. Moreover, don't forget that we had to put up with harassment from the debt collectors you sent after us over the years, which was very unpleasant I can tell you. Just imagine if you had done absolutely nothing wrong and were hounded by debt collectors for years on end! As bad as it was though, we simply weren't going to pay off fraudsters. Please confirm my proposal is acceptable and that we will both be able to use our Paypal accounts again from now on.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
Thank you for your email. We're happy that we've been able to resolve your matter. From your correspondence we understand that xxx, registered email address xxx has been having a similar experience. We would be willing to review xxx issue, however, before we can do so, can you please ask xxx to upload proof of shipping on www.paypal.co.uk/eucomplaint and to contact us from xxx own email address to let us know that the document has been uploaded and to provide any additional information he feels may be of value for our review?

xxx can contact us on our direct email address ppelce@paypal.co.uk.
Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalations
PayPal

Dear,
I have told xxx to do as requested. However, the link you provided just directs xxx to the main Paypal log in page and it appears xxx account is inactive. Is it ok for xxx to email you with a scanned copy of the dispatch certificate uploaded as an attachment? Furthermore, xxx is adamant that xxx provided a copy of the original dispatch certificate at the time. xxx is willing to do so again, but are you sure you still don't have this on record? Please confirm.

You haven't told me if my Paypal account is now active again. It doesn't seem to be yet, but it might be that I have to wait a while for reactivation. Please confirm. For the record, I haven't yet stated that I am completely happy, have no complaint to make and no more information to gather. That is for me to say; not you. I do of course hope that I will have no issue at the end our dialogue. I do hope that you can reply inside a week this time, as it really is very tedious waiting so long.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
Thank you for your email of xxx. We can confirm that full access has been restored to your account with the registered email address xxx. Please contact us again if you are experiencing any further difficulties logging in. We are not able to discuss the details of another account holder, including any documents provided. We regret that we are unable to accept email attachments for security reasons. Please ask xxx to contact us directly at ppelce@paypal.co.uk for further assistance from the email address registered to xxx PayPal account.
Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalations
PayPal

Dear Sir/Madam,
I have passed on the relevant information to xxx. Furthermore, I can confirm that my account is now active, but can't lift my account receiving limit from £xxx a year for some strange reason. It says that I have done everything required, but also says that more information is still required. There is obviously a glitch in the system somewhere. Can you please assist me with this.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
Thank you for your email of xxx. In order to remove the £xxx receiving limit, please simply follow the instructions below:

1. Log in to your PayPal account at www.paypal.co.uk
2. Click the link 'View Limits'.
3. Check the boxes for the limits you wish to lift and click 'Lift Limits'.
4. Follow the instructions provided.

Should you have any questions relating to any of the above information please contact us directly at ppelce@paypal.co.uk.
Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalations
PayPal

Dear Sir/Madam,
you clearly didn't listen to what I told you. I have copied and pasted the relevant information from my account for your perusal:

************************************************** ************************************************** ********

Further information required


More information required to lift account limits


Complete the steps below to provide further information.

Link and confirm your card
	Link your card
	Start process to confirm your card
	Enter 4-digit PayPal code	Check your card statement for the 4-digit PayPal code
Select account type
	Identify yourself or your business type	Pick which type of PayPal account best suits you
Confirm your personal information
	Confirm your personal information	Congratulations! We have confirmed your personal information.

Legend

• Complete
• In Progress
• To Do

Getting verified. We only ask you for essential information when you sign up to PayPal. But as you transact with us, we are under a legal obligation to know more information about you. Once you have completed our verification processes, you can send or receive amounts beyond initial limits we have placed on your account.
Confirm your information. To fulfil our legal requirements we are required to learn more about you.
************************************************** ************************************************** ********

All I can see are green ticks. It clearly says that I have done everything I needed to do, but still seems to be asking me for more information without telling me what that information is. You clearly have a glitch in your system somewhere. Can you please escalate this issue and resolve it for me promptly.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
Thank you for your email of 5 April, 2013. In order to remove the £xxx receiving limit, we need some documents to confirm your identity. Please send PayPal copies of the following items to help confirm your identity to comply with EU regulations:

•A valid photo ID for account holder such as: National ID card, Passport, Driving License, Official government issued Photo ID (Army, Police, Diplomatic), or Residency Permit

•Proof of address, such as a postal bank statement*, a postal credit card statement,* a mobile phone bill**, an online utility bill or financial statement**, a driving license issued in the last 12 months (different than the one used to confirm your identity), or a National ID Card issued in last 12 months (different than the one used to confirm your identity)*

Financial institution can differ from those listed in your PayPal account** Must include logo of institution, your name, physical address, a valid date of issue (date may be present in recent transactions or as part of "last log in"), and transactions (if a bank account statement)

We take your privacy seriously. Any personal identifying information you submit to PayPal remains private, secure and is only shared with a third party when required by law. Should you have any questions relating to any of the above information please contact us directly at ppelce@paypal.co.uk.
Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalations
PayPal

Dear Sir/Madam,
at the end of the day, I sent my item Royal Mail International Recorded delivery and did no wrong. I admit I am pleased that my account has now been reinstated with no issues present. However, I think it was very unreasonable that, over the past decade or so, I was periodically subjected to harassment by various debt collection agencies. There were at least four different companies involved, from memory, and it wasn't very pleasant getting their letters and especially their phone calls. One company would eventually go away, but another company would eventually rear its ugly head. All of this caused me great stress, aggravation and ill health. There is absolutely nothing more irritating than being harassed on the telephone at home. I am not exaggerating here at all and how would you have liked it? I think it is very appropriate that I am given some sort of compensation as a good will gesture in this instance, so can someone please look into this for me. I can then move on feeling that your company is a lot more moral than it used to be and you will have a happy customer back. I look forward, with hope, to a swift, fair and final resolution on this whole ghastly affair.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
Thank you for your email of xxx. As previously advised you have received a credit to your account for the amount of £xxx GBP to bring your balance to zero. This was not an admission of guilt or wrongdoing on PayPal’s part, but a gesture of goodwill as the case in question, reference xxx, had been closed correctly. As such, we will not be in a position to offer further compensation in this matter. Should you have any questions relating to any of the above information please contact us directly at ppelce@paypal.co.uk.
Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalations
PayPal

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am very disappointed by your stance and will look to take this matter further with external agencies or courts myself. Anyhow, that's all down to me and when I do take it further you will obviously hear about it in due course. For the record, there is one final point which I want clarifed for my case notes. It has been confirmed that the buyer did actually receive their refund in this case, so it wasn't just my account going into negative balance with the buyer not getting paid. Can you please just confirm, in no uncertain terms, whether the refund was paid by Paypal or the buyer's credit card company at the time. It is important for me to know this, for obvious reasons, and I am still awaiting an answer despite unambiguously asking the question on previous occasions. I look forward, with hope, to hearing from you promptly and getting a straight answer on this.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
The customer’s card issuer found in favour of the buyer. They issued a refund and in turn debited PayPal. As the payment was not eligible for Seller Protection we were unable to cover the loss of that payment. Please refer to our previous emails which have discussed this in detail. Should you have any questions relating to any of the above information please contact us directly at ppelce@paypal.co.uk.
Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalations
PayPal

Dear Sir/Madam,
I would much rather a simple and straightforward answer, than trying to decipher previous emails which were anything but clear. Saying 'debited' Paypal' certainly doesn't clarify whether any money actually went back to the card company from Paypal's coffers at the time, as my account going into negative balance could theoretically explain that. So, from what I can gather, it seems you are telling me that:

1. The buyer complained to his card company.
2. The card company then paid the buyer his money back from their own pockets.
3. Paypal then paid the card company their money back, at the time, from their own pockets.
4. After Paypal had paid the card company their money back, from Paypal's own pockets, my Paypal account was put into negative balance.

Please verify, for the record, that all of these facts are correct and that everything I have said is crystal clear to you. I strongly recommend that you please pay special attention to points three and four. I would caution you to not be economical with the truth, as I am going to be following all of this through with purpose. I look forward, with hope, to getting a final and unambiguous response on this matter.
Yours faithfully,

P.S. A response saying the following would quite acceptable to me:

'I have read and understood your email. I can confirm that you are completely correct in the four simple and straightforward points you have carefully laid out for my perusal.'

So, there you go. A one second copy and paste job or feel free to paraphrase what I have just written in twenty seconds as well. If I am wrong in any of my four points, then please just explain which point is wrong and why it is wrong.

Dear,
Please find further clarification below:

‘Debited’ – money has been taken from PayPal. The credit card company ‘debited’ PayPal; therefore the card company took the money from PayPal. As previously advised, PayPal then reversed the funds from your balance.

All complaints can be further referred to the following bodies and for the purpose of doing so, this letter will be known as our "final response":

UK European Consumer Centre (ECC-Net):
Trading Standards Institute
1 Sylvan Court, Sylvan Way Southfields Business Park Basildon, Essex SS15 6THUK

Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS), who should be contacted within the next six months. For further information, visit www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF)
110, Route d’ArlonL-2991 Luxembourg

Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalation
PayPal

Dear Sir/Madam,
I now accept that you have provided me with an unambiguous answer to my question. For the record, saying 'debited' certainly doesn't mean any money has gone anywhere. You can tell buyers that you are going to 'debit' the account of a fraudster and it doesn't mean they are going to get any money back whatsoever. Paypal doesn't guarantee to refund buyers if the money isn't in the seller's account, explicitly admitted by senior Paypal representative Rob Skinner to Which? magazine a while back, and you should know that full well. All that happens is a Paypal account goes into negative balance and no money goes anywhere. You may well then chase the fraudster and tell them they must pay up, but I reiterate that no money will have gone anywhere. This could have easily been the situation with my case and I find it hard to understand why I didn't get an explicit answer sooner. Anyhow, as stated, I now accept your final answer on that matter. Can I please just have all the relevant details of the transaction between Paypal and the credit card company (date, time, amount, transaction number etc.), so I can be on my way. Much appreciated and have a nice day.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
Information concerning the transaction can be viewed through the History page of your PayPal account. For your convenience, we have included the details of the chargeback case below:

· Case number: xxx
· Date created: xxx
· You provided postage information: xxx
· The tracking number you provided showed that no signature had been obtained, which was necessary due to the value of the item· Due to this, payment is not covered by Seller Protection policy· Pay debited by credit card issuer and payment reversed from your account: xxx
· PayPal disputes chargeback with credit card issuer on your behalf with postage info provided: xxx

The credit card issuer found in favour of their customer (the buyer) and therefore the funds were not credited back to your account. All further communication concerning this issue will be referred directly to our final response below. All complaints can be further referred to the following bodies and for the purpose of doing so, this letter will be known as our "final response":

UK European Consumer Centre (ECC-Net):
Trading Standards Institute1 Sylvan Court, Sylvan Way Southfields Business Park Basildon, Essex SS15 6TH

UK Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS), who should be contacted within the next six months. For further information, visit www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF)
110, Route d’ArlonL-2991 Luxembourg

Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalations
PayPal

Dear Sir/Madam,
a few things are still unclear to me. Firstly, the following sentence:

'Pay debited by credit card issuer and payment reversed from your account: xxx.'

I take it that by 'Pay' you actually mean 'Paypal'? Please confirm. If so, then it means you paid the credit card company from your own coffers on xxx, as stipulated in an earlier email.

Secondly, why have I not been provided with a transaction number accounting for the money which you say you paid to the credit card company? Please provide. Alternatively, please confirm, for the record, that no such transaction number exists.

Finally, please confirm the name of the credit card company involved in this transaction.
Yours faithfully,

P.S. No response isn't any sort of response, let alone a final response. I suggest you mull it over. We are certainly getting there slowly though, just three more answers needed, so hopefully this should be the final hurdle. For the record, it will be court and TV programmes if I am dissatisfied; not a weak regulator.

Dear,
All complaints can be further referred to the following bodies and for the purpose of doing so, this letter will be known as our "final response":

UK European Consumer Centre (ECC-Net):
Trading Standards Institute1 Sylvan Court, Sylvan Way Southfields Business Park Basildon, Essex SS15 6TH

UK Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS), who should be contacted within the next six months. For further information, visit www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF)
110, Route d’ArlonL-2991 Luxembourg

Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalations
PayPal

PRELIMINARY COURT LETTER
Dear,
you said the following in your previous email:

'All complaints can be further referred to the following bodies:'

Unfortunately, you missed court off the list. I'm sure it was just an innocent oversight, so no worries. Anyhow, court is precisely what you are going to get if I am not furnished with more information. Three things are still unclear to me and they are as follows:

1. In an earlier email was the following sentence:

'Pay debited by credit card issuer and payment reversed from your account: XXX.'

I take it that by 'Pay' you actually mean 'Paypal'? Please confirm. If so, then it means you paid the credit card company from your own coffers on XXX, as stipulated in an earlier email.

2. Why have I not been provided with a transaction number accounting for the money which you say you paid to the credit card company? Please provide. Alternatively, please confirm, for the record, that no such transaction number exists.

3. Finally, please confirm the name of the credit card company involved in this transaction.

If I am not furnished with the requested information within 14 days of this Preliminary Court Letter, then a final Letter Before Action will be issued to you. If I am still not furnished with the requested information within 14 days of the Letter Before Action being sent, then you will be issued with court papers. I am not joking, as you will certainly discover if necessary. Have a nice day.
Yours faithfully,

Dear,
Should you wish to file a claim against PayPal in the UK County Courts, please be advised that the defendant should be listed by you as:

PayPal (Europe) S.Ã r.l. & Cie
22-24 Boulevard RoyalL-2449 LuxembourgRCS Luxembourg B 118 349

Any official correspondence relating to prospective legal cases, including letters from your solicitor should likewise be sent to the above address.All complaints can be further referred to the following bodies and for the purpose of doing so, this letter will be known as our "final response":

UK European Consumer Centre (ECC-Net):
Trading Standards Institute1 Sylvan Court, Sylvan Way Southfields Business Park Basildon, Essex SS15 6TH

UK Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS), who should be contacted within the next six months. For further information, visit www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF)
110, Route d’ArlonL-2991 Luxembourg

Yours sincerely,
Executive Escalations
PayPal

Dear,
you appear to be a very strange XXX and I honestly worry for the state of your health and sanity. You keep talking about mysterious 'final responses', which concerns me greatly. It is impossible to have had a final response, without having had any response, and I would consider myself incredibly lucky to just get one response. For example, there are three pieces of information I am seeking for my Paypal file. They are as follows:

1. In an earlier email was the following sentence:

'Pay debited by credit card issuer and payment reversed from your account: xxx.'

I take it that by 'Pay' you actually mean 'Paypal'? Please confirm. If so, then it means you paid the credit card company from your own coffers on xxx, as stipulated in an earlier email.

No response.

2. Why have I not been provided with a transaction number accounting for the money which you say you paid to the credit card company? Please provide. Alternatively, please confirm, for the record, that no such transaction number exists.

No response.

3. Finally, please confirm the name of the credit card company involved in this transaction.

No response.

All this fuss over whether your use of the word 'Pay' actually meant 'Paypal', a transaction number and the name of a credit card company? Seriously? Anyone would think you had something to hide and were doing a grand job of messing it up, though of course that surely couldn't be true... For the record, your recent replies need to state:

'We refuse to respond.'

Technically, refusing to respond and stating as much could be considered a final response. The refusal to respond must clearly be put in writing beforehand though. Now please stop sending me nonsensical emails. Furthermore, given your obvious lack of knowledge and competence, I think it best I decide for myself where my correspondence goes and what form delivery takes. Anyhow, you will be getting my Letter Before Action on 23rd June, if the requested information still isn't forthcoming, as previously stipulated. Reading through the correspondence I don't think it looks good for you. Moreover, now you have begun to irritate me I fear you might be hearing a lot more about negative balances in many other cases involving credit card companies and many other cases involving the Limitation Act. You have brought it all upon yourself by refusing to answer three basic questions involving my case, so please just get upset with yourself and don't denigrate the messenger. Meanwhile, please don't hesitate to contact me if you need clarification or assistance with anything you don't understand. I won't talk gibberish and will do my best to help you.
Yours faithfully,

P.S. I also notice that you still didn't manage to add court to the list of bodies you stipulate a complaint can be referred to. I wonder why that is? Any chance of a response on that question?

[ploddingon]

Re: Paypal.

Well, I hope people don't think I got too shirty, but it gets a bit tedious dealing with these people after a while. They are like politicians who can't answer a straight question.

First and foremost, I don't think that they like hearing about the Limitation Act, so if anyone has a Paypal 'alleged debt' they haven't acknowledged or paid anything towards in the past 6 years, then don't forget that Paypal are subject to the Limitation Act just like everyone else is. They are not exempt, though i'm sure they like to think that they are. If you approach them in the manner I did, then you will likely get any negative balance removed and your account reinstated. This is especially the case if you sent them proof of dispatch at the time of the chargeback.

Moving on to my quest for information then. I strongly suspect that Paypal paid no money to the buyer's credit card company at the time. I reckon that the credit card company paying back the buyer was the only instance of money changing hands. I reckon that my Paypal account going into negative balance was just a computer entry. I reckon that if any poor sod in my situation gave in to Paypal, by paying off a negative balance for the sake of Ebay convenience or to avoid DCA harassment, then Paypal just quietly pocketed the money without reimbursing any credit card company involved. I reiterate, this only applies to people who managed to get the money out of their Paypal account, before any chargeback got applied, and had their account go into negative balance. If true, then this amounts to Paypal fraud doesn't it? Why else wouldn't they give me the information I want? They won't even give me the name of the credit card company involved. If true, then that means they sent various DCA's after me with no intention of passing on the money to the rightful recipient. They had a chance to give me some compensation and didn't take it, so I want to see this through to the end. Should I continue with a Letter Before Action or try a different method of getting the information I want? Any advice greatly appreciated.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Paypal.

When you next sell memory sticks Stateside, send the colonials these

and this:

[ploddingon]

Re: Paypal.

I will just be using Paypal to pay for things from now on. A lesson well learned and no more chargebacks for me. Although my account, and that of a third party at my address, are both now open and in good standing I really want to see this through to the end. Paypal needs to be taken down a peg or three. Can no beagle offer any advice on how best to proceed?