M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

[billysilly]

Can anyone please tell me if this application form http://s683.beta.photobucket.com/use...tml?sort=6&o=8 has the prescribed terms and would be enforceable in court?

Cheers

Billy

[labman]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

Sorry, can't see it properly.

[Ruby]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

I had one of these dated back to 2004/05 - when they first launched their credit cards. In my case it was as the form says 'Application Form' not a credit agreement despite them trying to convince me that it was.

[billysilly]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

Sorry Labman I'm not sure what I can do to make it clearer (not very technical I'm afraid!)

Yes Ruby this was 2004 when they first bought out their credit card and It is titled application form not credit agreement and I signed it in store ut I thought I had read somewhere that if it says the "this is a credit agreement...." bit it was classed as an agreement?

What happened with your account?

Billy

[labman]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

Sorry Labman I'm not sure what I can do to make it clearer (not very technical I'm afraid!)

Yes Ruby this was 2004 when they first bought out their credit card and It is titled application form not credit agreement and I signed it in store ut I thought I had read somewhere that if it says the "this is a credit agreement...." bit it was classed as an agreement?

What happened with your account?

Billy

I know! Maybe someone else will have better eyesight.

[mystery1]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

It can be an agreement as it does have "this is a credit ...." but i can't read the small text and i'd be surprised if the prescribed terms are in that very small looking section.

M1

[billysilly]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

Hi Labman & M1

I can type up the small print but from what I've learnt (not sure how much is correct!!) I don't think they are. The first thing that comes to my mind is no mention of late fees or charges.

I will type it up shortly

Billy

[billysilly]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

Data Policy
Before granting credit we will search the files of one or more credit reference agencies who will supply us with credit information from the electoral register. These agencies will keep a record of the search, whether or not this application proceeds and this information may be used by other lenders in assessing applications for credit by you and those with whom you are linked financially and or for debt ?????? We may make periodic searches of credit reference and fraud prevention agencies to manage your account with us, to take decisions regarding credit, including whether to make credit available or continue to extend existing credit. the searches will not be seen or used y lenders to assess your ability to obtain credit. Your name, address and date of birth will not be made available to companies outside the Marks and Spencer Group for marketing purposes, although the data may be held by the Marks and Spencer group or by approved organisations which may include Insurance companies in order to maintain your account, for testing, monitoring, training and to process your Account, and :In respect of Insurance products, for underwriting and claims handling. We may disclose any information relating to any account where in our reasonable opinion this is necessary for the prevention of fraud or money laundering or we have a legal obligation to disclose it to any person making the request. We may check your details with fraud prevention agencies and if you give us false or inaccurate information and we suspect fraud, we will record this. we may share this information within the Group and with other organisations to make decisions about you or anyone financially associated with you for credit or Insurance purposes. You declare that you are entitled to disclose information about anyone else referred to by you and authorise us to search, link and/or record information at credit reference agencies about you and/or anyone else referred to by you. We will link applications and/or any individual identified as your financial partner, at credit reference agencies, which will link your financial records. Thereafter each other's information may e taken into account in future applications by either or both of you. This linking will continue until one of you successfully files a 'disassociation' at the credit reference agencies. Please note that calls and electronic communication may be recorded for the purposes of monitoring, training and dispute resolution. You have the right to ask for a copy of the information we hold on you and to have any inaccuracies corrected. The Marks and Spencer Group may use your details to send you information about other goods and services or for research purposes.
If you prefer not to receive such information/research please tick the box
I confirm the information that I have given to be here is true and correct. I understand that at its sole discretion Marks and Spencer Financial services plc may decline to issue me with a "&more" Credit Card, or subsequently cancel it.
Your right to cancel
Once you have signed this agreement, you will have, for a short time a right to cancel. Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by the creditor.
(In the signature box it says)
This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms.

I think the sentence about your right to cancel proves that no terms and conditions were included in this document?!!

Thanks

Billy

[FlamingParrot]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms.

I think the sentence about your right to cancel proves that no terms and conditions were included in this document?!!

The reverse of the application form posted on photobucket as a separate file seems to contain all the required terms.

[billysilly]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

Hi FP

Our argument is that we deny that t and c's were ever given with the agreement that was signed in store. The t and c's that are posted are several pages that they sent along with the application form when I cca'd them. They could not have been part of the one form as there are too many pages and the quote about right to cancel also implies that t and c's were coming later.

Please say if you think this wrong in any way.

Billy

[Ruby]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

My account was sold to a DCA and apart from the odd threat-o-matic letter which went straight into the bin nothing else happened. The account will be statute barred soon. I had a repayment plan with M & S, when I got into financial difficulty ( which I stuck too diligently) however they still sold the account on so I stopped paying altogether.

[billysilly]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

Thanks Ruby

This account was also sold on but we have received a court claim so I am trying to gain as many pointers as possible

Billy

[Ruby]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

Sorry to hear that Billy, who was it sold to? My account was defaulted years ago and is statute barred now in Scotland - 5 years for us

[billysilly]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

Hi Ruby

It was sold to Sigma!

Lucky you! We have another 18 months before SB!!

Billy

[FlamingParrot]

Re: M&S Application Form Is it Enforceable?

Hi FP

Our argument is that we deny that t and c's were ever given with the agreement that was signed in store. The t and c's that are posted are several pages that they sent along with the application form when I cca'd them. They could not have been part of the one form as there are too many pages and the quote about right to cancel also implies that t and c's were coming later.

Please say if you think this wrong in any way.

No, it isn't wrong, you have to be prepared to make that assertion in front of a judge. I know a couple of cases that were won because the defendants could recall very clearly how they'd applied for the cards and what was and wasn't there at the time they signed the application forms. One of them was an ad in a glossy magazine that couldn't have had the prescribed terms anywhere because the reverse was another ad or a magazine article. I'll try to dig them up.

[EDIT] This was one of them cases --> http://www.watsonssolicitors.co.uk/wegmuller.html note the reference to the 'right to cancel':

Thirdly, the terms and conditions had a reference to "Rights to cancel" which stated that the debtor had 5 days to cancel the agreement from receipt of the terms. It referred to returning money to the creditor if the debtor exercised this right, now that would mean that you would have already had the card to have been able to spend money under the agreement. Two points stood out to us and Mr Wegmuller
A) Only allowing 5 days to cancel would be nonsense as it would take more than this for the application to be approved by the creditor turning the right to cancel into a farce.
B) Since this is a credit token agreement, it is difficult to see how the debtor would be able to draw money without having the card first. Therefore, to read the terms and conditions as if they appeared with the application would produce an absurdity. A better reading would be if the terms appeared with the card, thus the Debtor could effectively use the card and have 5 days to cancel it. This would make the reference to having to repay any monies used more logical.